Balance between project managers and developers?

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+4 Q:

Balance between project managers and developers?

Right now, my project is slightly requirements starved; the project managers can't get good requirements as fast as we can build them, so we're being less efficient than we probably could be.

How many developers per project manager makes for a good balance?

+1 A:

Usually 5 developers per 1 project manager works well.

Ender 2010-01-27 16:46:51

+5 A:

Depends on the project manager and the project. I've seen some PMs handle teams of 50 to 80 devs; I've seen other's struggle with 2 people.

It sounds to me like this project was greenlighted long before anyone knew what it was supposed to do. Which means you might be feeling good now, but wait until the final month or so. Things will change.

Chris Lively 2010-01-27 16:47:36

I can't imagine one person managing 50-80 developers. Are you sure the group of developers wasn't broken down into smaller groups with lead developers / project managers ?

Ender 2010-01-27 16:58:31

A PM is not necessarily the Dev Manager. Some companies use a PM who is fluent in scheduling as well as requirements gathering. They might report to a Dev Manager or the CIO. Typically they work pretty closely with one or more Dev Managers. The Dev Managers are responsible for taking the tasks created by the PM and assigning them to their own team members. So yes, I have seen people with the title Project Manager successfully handling 80 devs.

Chris Lively 2010-01-27 17:02:05

We don't have to wait for the last month, and I can't imagine a PM managing 80 people effectively.

Dean J 2010-01-27 22:12:04

At one large company I worked with they had 1 PM for every 50 dev's. The dev's were broken up into teams of about 5 with a team lead / dev manager. They had around 1000 developers total. Another one had 12 dev's, 3 PMs/BAs, and 1 dev manager. That place had a problem keeping BAs around for longer than 3 months due to workload.

Chris Lively 2010-01-27 22:38:48

We have different roles.

The Project Manager manages the developers, can be up to 15 maybe.

The Business Analysts are the ones that provide the requirements. The proportion is more like one of them for two or three developers.

KLE 2010-01-27 16:51:21

In some companies the PM is not the dev manager. Rather they are equivalent to a BA who has the additional task of keeping the project schedule together. They might gather requirements, create tasks, and run status meetings. They sometimes report to a Dev manager, sometimes the CIO. Dev Managers manage the workload, assign tasks, etc.

Chris Lively 2010-01-27 16:58:14

My team has a development manager (me) and a product manager. The PM does the role of business analyst, gathering requirements from internal and external customers, doing other market research, and proposing business cases. As a dev manager, I wouldn't say I "assign tasks" (we're using Kanban), but rather run interference and remove impediments from my team, as well as serve as a single point of contact / throat to choke.

Chris Simmons 2010-01-27 17:13:30

@Chris and Chris :-) thanks for the details, I understand now :-). That role is certainly extremely important to help the developers, notably the single point of contact!

KLE 2010-01-27 17:16:16

We have requirements analysts and project managers. I think we're short on both, and want to avoid the developers - at the end of the chain - being the scapegoat for late releases.

Dean J 2010-01-27 22:14:17

Why are the project managers getting the requirements? Where I work we have a business analyst that helps get requirements though at times developers can go to end users to get requirements in some cases since not everything is known in the beginning.

We have a handful of developers, one BA, and one project manager. In the past we have had one more BA to help map out what is required and how complicated the overall system would be.

JB King 2010-01-27 16:54:14

The PM is pushing the requirements (BA) team to firm up requirements. We're moving towards Agile, but largely are just in a waterfall model here.

Dean J 2010-01-27 22:13:25

We have no connection between the two. Each project manager would deal with however many developers are available and assigned to the project. If the project has lots of developers, that's where senior/lead developers and development team managers might get involved rather than the PM deal with them all directly.

CodeByMoonlight 2010-01-27 17:09:01

In finding a good ratio, weather it be 5:1, 10:1, etc. I would lean more heavily on the developer side than what you think the average needs will be. If PM/BA shortages crop up, we as developers can "reluctantly" step into a "PM" role to fill the gap. (temporarily, hopefully) It is easier to turn a developer into a PM than a PM into a developer. This makes the team more adaptable.

James Lawruk 2010-01-27 17:11:55

+1 A:

Anand Muthu 2010-01-27 17:17:12

+2 A:

There is no such thing as "the golden developers to PM ratio". The problem itself is not likely to be rooted in the ratio itself, but whether you find yourself starved for work on a project it most probably means that the proejct manager is not doing their job very well:

One too many people were allocated for the project to start with.
The task you're assigned to is waiting on an external dependency. PM should have provided you with an alternative tasks as part of the ongoing risk management.
You've completed task early and PM didn't prepare to take advantage of the situation by letting you refactor, bring documentation up to date or similar. Being able to capitalise on an opportunity is just another side of risk management.
There is a bottleneck in the project organisation, that is to say things cannot be scoped, planned, quality assured as fast as you can deliver new software.
PM falling for the classic software mistake #19:

Wasted time during the fuzzy front end. The "fuzzy front end" is the time before the project starts, the time normally spent in the approval and budgeting process. It's not uncommon for a project to spend months or years in the fuzzy front end and then to come out of the gates with an aggressive schedule. It's much easier and cheaper and less risky to save a few weeks or months in the fuzzy front end than it is to compress a development schedule by the same amount.

Totophil 2010-01-28 17:19:10

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Balance between project managers and developers?

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