I am wondering if my situation is the norm or not. I find that many of the developers I work with are only programmers from nine to five. Learning anything new requires a mandate from the company. Is this type of developer the norm out there?
+11
A:
I would guess most programmers fall into the 9 to 5 category.
What other professions do you race home to continue your work? Programming takes passion and commitment. Not everyone can devote this level of energy to the discipline.
It also takes time, which is in short supply. Most of those 9 to 5'ers had the fire burning within them at one point... things change. They get married, have kids... priorities change. It's life.
Chuck Conway
2009-01-22 13:26:52
+1
A:
Its a mix and I think it always will be. It sounds like you got a bad ratio, but that might have to do with who does the hiring and the personalities they look for.
We have people who work 8-5 then go home and either continue working on company projects or their own side projects or just learn new technology. It seems like their life is based on it. Then, like you said, we have people who like to come in and do their work and thats it. I guess the majority here really love what they do and stay on top of the latest and greatest, but only a few take it to the extremes.
Dustin Brooks
2009-01-22 13:29:21
+1
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From my experience this happens a lot in businesses where the development department began as a part of IT. Often springing up from an evolution from Spreadsheet -> Access Database -> full application. The people who write them are mainly concerned with getting things done rather than writing good code. In fact to many people there is no such thing as intrinsically good code. Just software that gets the job done. This is not a bad thing in these situations. But these are not the people who love programming and they are not the people who write the frameworks and tools that their software is built upon.
Jack Ryan
2009-01-22 13:30:18
A:
I don't think you can generalize like this.
I've worked with all kinds of developers - some who just want to scoot away at the stroke of 5 or some others who don't have a social life and happily spend their entire nights coding or hacking away.
Personally, its the individual incentives (both monetary and otherwise) that the developer has that determines whether he's the 9-5 types or the hardworking types.
Nikhil Kashyap
2009-01-22 13:30:41
Someone who works 9-5 != not hard working. -1 unless you can refute?
Adam Naylor
2009-01-22 13:38:09
Err..By 9-5, I meant the type described by the poser of this question if that makes it clear.
Nikhil Kashyap
2009-01-22 13:40:27
ok have it back :)
Adam Naylor
2009-01-22 13:43:15
More appropriate might be 10-4 :)
ccook
2009-01-22 18:11:16
+20
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I'm going to rock the boat a bit on this whole 'passion' thing.
I know of many professionals who are experts in their chosen careers, but like to go home and fix up their old car or boat in their free time. If they can do their job efficiently, keep up with current tech between 9 and 5 why work any more for free?
I'm in my 40's now, I made it to a good career place where I don't need to be hacking out code every free hour outside of work. When finishing off time comes I go home and do something else. I find it's healthier for my brain these days. It doesn't mean I don't have the 'passion' any more.
Kev
Kev
2009-01-22 13:32:38
That is a form a of passion in my book. effecient, up-to-date, and fast!
Adam Naylor
2009-01-22 13:36:56
I'll agree, a passion may lay elsewhere. But, is it not the responsibility of the developer to stay sharp and up to date? Maybe I'm just frustrated as I see the community moving forward without us.
ccook
2009-01-22 13:37:17
@ccook - I don't think it's necessary for every developer in the world to be at the cutting edge of every new tech a vendor ships, that doesn't make a bad programmer. Most of my peers at my age are able to stay reasonably on top of things but still keep it 9-5 and maintain quality output.
Kev
2009-01-22 13:44:15
@Kev - As a programmer, if you don't keeping up with what's new and cutting edge, your skills will atrophy. If you are at a point in your career where your job doesn't demand rock solid programming skillz (like CTO, Dev Manager... etc) then more power to you. If not, the energetic will over take you
Chuck Conway
2009-01-22 13:55:25
@Charles - being cutting edge != rock solid programming skillz. I do keep up with the new tech, but I certainly don't do that in the evenings now. Being efficient in my working day enables me to keep on top of what I need to know between 9-5.
Kev
2009-01-22 14:17:22
@Kev - I will agree, programming skill is not related to currency. though its also lacking. I do think when developing web apps though, its hard to provide efficient solutions without being up to date.
ccook
2009-01-22 18:10:37
@Charles - being 4-6 months behind the bleeding edge certainly doesn't hurt efficiency by that much. I'm quite comfortable being a bit behind rather than hitting all the bleeding edge gotchas which affects my ability to be efficient.
Kev
2009-01-22 18:26:14
I think it depends on what you define as "up to date". If your co-workers are still more comfortable with, say, PHP than Ruby so what? Chances are that they will still be able to adapt if the situation calls for it, and their skillset is certainly not useless. If however your coworkers are quite convinced that COBAL is the way to go then, well... good luck with that!
Toji
2009-10-30 22:47:37
Well if you're a mainframe programmer in a bank you'll probably find IBM COBOL and IBM Assembler is still the predominant platform for the bank's core business function. Who's to say these guys aren't at the cutting edge there. COBOL may be an old language but it's come a long way over the years running on some pretty advanced hardware.
Kev
2009-10-31 01:11:13
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Frankly I think every developer internally has a both grouchy man who just wants to go get things done and doesn't like dealing with new things but also an excited kid who wants to take everything apart and put it back together again. Some have more of one than the other and there's an eternal struggle within us all who will win :)
I've spent time not really accomplishing anything, just to learn something. I've also spent time in a pure pursuit to "hack it out" and "get it done" when stopping to invest in some learning would be valuable. Both are extremes and can lead to problems, naturally.
Really software development calls for a careful balance of the two, knowing when to buck up and just do the work and knowing when an investment in your knowledge is warranted.
Doug T.
2009-01-22 13:36:50
+1
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They can only mandate what you learn at work - no-one is stopping you from learning outside work.
So, back to your question - I work with both kinds of people, the 9-6's and the full-on geeks. They both bring things to the table, sometimes you need the non-geeks to keep the geeks in check!
I would say that there are a lot of 9-5ers out there but they may be geeks about other things! Its good to have a mix, on the whole I prefer to work with the inquisitive geeky type though.
Fortyrunner
2009-01-22 13:45:40
+7
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In college and a few years out of college (only 3 years removed now), I was definitely the full-on geek. I'd spend pretty much all of my time coding, reading books, and learning new things. I couldn't get enough.
The passion for me hasn't changed at all. I still spend some of my free time coding, working on personal projects, reading books, etc. However, I do far less of it now and I do leave work at 5. Why? Because my son goes to sleep at 6:30. :) Now, I'm married, have a 14 month old son, and another baby on the way. Life happened. My passion is still there, but my priorities have changed and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Chris Stewart
2009-01-22 14:18:53
+1
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In academics I typically find a lot of people who want to learn how to program just because of the salaries available. Its quite frustrating and not all of the ones who go into this for the money are weeded out early on.
monksy
2009-10-30 22:26:31
+3
A:
I had tons of passion for programming, but then I married it. I cheat on it with my camera or my bicycle in the evenings.
aehiilrs
2009-10-30 22:34:05