views:

6137

answers:

21

I am looking at the MvcContrib Grid component and I'm fascinated, yet at the same time repulsed, by a syntactic trick used in the Grid syntax:

.Attributes(style => "width:100%")

The syntax above sets the style attribute of the generated HTML to width:100%. Now if you pay attention, 'style' is nowhere specified, is deduced from the name of the parameter in the expression! I had to dig into this and found where the 'magic' happens:

   Hash(params Func<object, TValue>[] hash)
   {
     foreach (var func in hash)
     {
       Add(func.Method.GetParameters()[0].Name, func(null));
     }
   }

So indeed, the code is using the formal, compile time, name of parameters to create the dictionary of attribute name-value pairs. The resulted syntax construct is very expressive indeed, but at the same time very dangerous. The general use of lambda expressions allows for replacement of the names used without side effect. I see an example in a book that says collection.ForEach(book => Fire.Burn(book)) I know I can write in my code collection.ForEach(log => Fire.Burn(log)) and it means the same thing. But with the MvcContrib Grid syntax here all of the sudden I find code that actively looks and makes decissions based on the names I choose for my variables!

So is this common practice with the C# 3.5/4.0 community and the lambda expressions lovers? Or is a rogue one trick maverick I shouldn't worry about?

+30  A: 

I would prefer

Attributes.Add(string name, string value);

It's much more explicit and standard and nothing is being gained by using lamdas.

NotDan
Is it though? `html.Attributes.Add("style", "width:100%");` doesn't read as nicely as `style = "width:100%"` (the actual html generated), whereas `style => "width:100%"` is very close to what it looks like in the resulting HTML.
Jamie Penney
Their syntax allows for tricks like .Attributes(id=>'foo', @class=>'bar', style=>'width:100%'). The function signature uses the params syntax for variable number of args: Attributes(params Func<object, object>[] args). It is very powerfull, but it took me *quite a while* to understand wtf it does.
Remus Rusanu
Agreed. More readable too.
Arve Systad
@Jamie: Trying to make the C# code look like the HTML code would be a bad reason for design descisions. They are completely different languages for completely different purposes, and they should not look the same.
Guffa
An anonymous object might just as well have been used, without sacrificing the "beauty"? .Attributes(new {id = "foo", @class = "bar", style = "width:100%"}) ??
Funka
@Guffa Why would it be a bad reason for design decisions? Why should they not look the same? By that reasoning should they *intentionally* look different? I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying you might want to more fully elaborate your point.
Stuart Branham
@Stuart: Making code that output HTML look like HTML is like making code that prints bar codes look like bar codes... The way code is written should not be influenced by what the output looks like. Making the code intentionally look different doesn't really apply here, but in ASP code I have intentionally exaggerated the differences between VBScript and Javascript to make them easy to recognise.
Guffa
I completely agree, but this does not answer the question at all.
Sam Saffron
@Guffa, by that reasoning, you'd never use anything like ASP.NET, ASP.NET MVC, JSP, or any similar web technology. The reason they exist is to let your view code look as close as possible to html. We already had servlets before any of that came out, and a servlet is merely a method that generates textual html from code. The world wanted something that looked more like the output that was being generated, and apparently you did too since you mention ASP.
Charlie Flowers
+7  A: 

This is one of the benefits of expression trees - one can examine the code itself for extra information. That is how .Where(e => e.Name == "Jamie") can be converted into the equivalent SQL Where clause. This is a clever use of expression trees, though I would hope that it does not go any further than this. Anything more complex is likely to be more difficult than the code it hopes to replace, so I suspect it will be self limiting.

Jamie Penney
Is a valid point, but truth in advertising: LINQ comes with a whole set of attributes like TableAttribute and ColumnAttribute that make this a more legit affair. Also linq mapping looks at class names and property names, which are arguably more stable than a parameter names.
Remus Rusanu
I agree with you there. I've changed my stance on this slightly after reading what Eric Lippert/Anders Helsberg/etc had to say on the matter. Thought I'd leave this answer up as it is still somewhat helpful.For what it's worth, I now think this style of working with HTML is nice, but it doesn't fit with the language.
Jamie Penney
+19  A: 

I'm in the "syntax brilliance" camp, if they document it clearly, and it looks this freaking cool, there's almost no problem with it imo!

Blindy
Amen, brother. Amen (2nd amen required to meet min length for comments :)
Charlie Flowers
+24  A: 

Welcome To Rails Land :)

There is really nothing wrong with it as long as you know what's going on. (It's when this kind of thing isn't documented well that there is a problem).

The entirety of the Rails framework is built on the idea of convention over configuration. Naming things a certain way keys you into a convention they're using and you get a whole lot of functionality for free. Following the naming convention gets you where you're going faster. The whole thing works brilliantly.

Another place where I've seen a trick like this is in method call assertions in Moq. You pass in a lambda, but the lambda is never executed. They just use the expression to make sure that the method call happened and throw an exception if not.

Jason Punyon
I was a bit hesitant to, but I agree. Aside from the reflection overhead, there is no significant difference between using a string as in Add() vs. using a lambda parameter name. At least that I can think of. You can muck it up and type "sytle" without noticing both ways.
Stuart Branham
I couldn't figure out why this wasn't weird to me, and then I remembered Rails. :D
Allyn
+43  A: 

This has poor interop. For example, consider this C# - F# example

C#:

public class Class1
{
    public static void Foo(Func<object, string> f)
    {
        Console.WriteLine(f.Method.GetParameters()[0].Name);
    }
}

F#:

Class1.Foo(fun yadda -> "hello")

Result:

"arg" is printed (not "yadda").

As a result, library designers should either avoid these kinds of 'abuses', or else at least provide a 'standard' overload (e.g. that takes the string name as an extra parameter) if they want to have good interop across .Net languages.

Brian
Something I had not considered. How would one access the expression tree correctly for it to work in the F# case?
Jamie Penney
You don't. This strategy is simply non-portable. (In case it helps, as an example the other way, F# could be capable of overloading methods that differ only in return type (type inference can do that). This can be expressed in the CLR. But F# disallows it, mostly because if you did that, those APIs would not be callable from C#.) When it comes to interop, there are always trade-offs at 'edge' features regarding what benefits you get versus what interop you trade away.
Brian
That seems like a bit of an oversight on the F# language side -> is there a good reason why this is the case? I'm guessing lambda expressions in C# and functions in F# generate different IL.
Jamie Penney
I don't like non interoperability as a reason to not do something. If interoperability is a requirement then do it, if not, then why worry about it? This is YAGNI IMHO.
jfar
@jfar: In .NET CLR land interoperability has a whole new dimenssion, as assemblies generated in *any* compiler are supposed to be consumed from any *other* language.
Remus Rusanu
@Remus Rusanu: I thought it was okay to do non-interoperable things as long as you weren't claiming to be [CLSCompliant].
Jeffrey Hantin
@Jeffrey: You are right.
Remus Rusanu
I agree that you don't have to be CLS compliant, but it seems like a good idea if you are writing a library or control (and the snippet that start this is from a grid, yes?) Otherwise, you're just limiting your audience/customer base
JMarsch
+1 for the interop concern. its only one of many.
Sam Saffron
Maybe it's worth changing the: Func<object, string> to Expression<<Func<object, string>>And if you constrain the right hand side of the expression to just be constants you can have an implementation that does this: public static IDictionary<string, string> Hash(params Expression<Func<object, string>>[] hash) { Dictionary<string, string> values = new Dictionary<string,string>(); foreach (var func in hash) { values[func.Parameters[0].Name] = (string)((ConstantExpression)func.Body).Value; } return values; }
dfowler
@dfowler: so does `func.Parameters[0].Name` have better interop support than `func.Method.GetParameters()[0].Name`? Is that what you're saying?
Roatin Marth
+12  A: 

I hardly ever came across this kind of usage. I think it's "inappropriate" :)

This is not a common way of use, it is inconsistent with the general conventions. This kind of syntax has pros and cons of course:

Cons

  • The code is not intuitive (usual conventions are different)
  • It tends to be fragile (rename of parameter will break the functionality).
  • It's a little more difficult to test (faking the API will require usage of reflection in tests).
  • If expression is used intensively it'll be slower due to the need to analyze the parameter and not just the value (reflection cost)

Pros

  • It's more readable after the developer adjusted to this syntax.

Bottom line - in public API design I would have chosen more explicit way.

Elisha
@Elisha - your Pros and Cons are reversed. At least I hope you're not saying that a Pro is having code "not intuitive". ;-)
Metro Smurf
@Metro Smurf, thanks! That's was happens writing answers so late :)
Elisha
For this particular case - lambda parameter name and string parameter are both fragile. It's like using dynamic for xml parsing - it's appropriate because you can't be sure about xml anyway.
Arnis L.
+13  A: 

No, it's certainly not common practice. It's counter-intuitive, there is no way of just looking at the code to figure out what it does. You have to know how it's used to understand how it's used.

Instead of supplying attributes using an array of delegates, chaining methods would be clearer and perform better:

.Attribute("style", "width:100%;").Attribute("class", "test")

Although this is a bit more to type, it's clear and intuitive.

Guffa
Really? I knew exactly what that snippet of code intended when I looked at it. It's not that obtuse unless you're very strict. One could give the same argument about overloading + for string concatenation, and that we should always use a Concat() method instead.
Stuart Branham
@Stuart: No, you didn't know exactly, you were just guessing based on the values used. Anyone can make that guess, but guessing is not a good way of understanding code.
Guffa
I'm guessing using `.Attribute("style", "width:100%")` gives me `style="width:100%"`, but for all I know it could give me `foooooo`. I'm not seeing the difference.
Stuart Branham
"Guessing based on the values used" is ALWAYS what you do when looking at code. If you encounter a call to stream.close() you assume it closes a stream, yet it might as well do something completely different.
Wouter Lievens
@Wouter: If you are ALWAYS guessing when reading code, you must have great difficulties reading code... If I see a call to a method named "close" I can gather that the author of the class doesn't know about naming conventions, so I would be very hesitant to take anything at all for granted about what the method does.
Guffa
+1  A: 

If the method (func) names are well chosen, then this is a brilliant way to avoid maintenance headaches (ie: add a new func, but forgot to add it to the function-parameter mapping list). Of course, you need to document it heavily and you'd better be auto-generating the documentation for the parameters from the documentation for the functions in that class...

Craig Trader
A: 

In my opinion it is abuse of the lambdas.

As to syntax brilliance i find style=>"width:100%" plain confusing. Particularily because of the => instead of =

mfeingold
+1  A: 

The code is very clever, but it potentially causes more problems that it solves.

As you've pointed out, there's now an obscure dependency between the parameter name (style) and an HTML attribute. No compile time checking is done. If the parameter name is mistyped, the page probably won't have a runtime error message, but a much harder to find logic bug (no error, but incorrect behavior).

A better solution would be to have a data member that can be checked at compile time. So instead of this:

.Attributes(style => "width:100%");

code with a Style property could be checked by the compiler:

.Attributes.Style = "width:100%";

or even:

.Attributes.Style.Width.Percent = 100;

That's more work for the authors of the code, but this approach takes advantage of C#'s strong type checking ability, which helps prevent bugs from getting into code in the first place.

Chris R. Timmons
I appreciate compile-time checking, but I think this comes down to a matter of opinion. Maybe something like new Attributes() { Style: "width:100%" } would win more people over to this, since it's more terse. Still, implementing everything HTML allows is a huge job and I can't blame someone for just using strings/lambdas/anonymous classes.
Stuart Branham
+58  A: 

I find that odd not so much because of the name, but because the lambda is unnecessary; it could use an anonymous-type and be more flexible:

.Attributes(new { style = "width:100%", @class="foo", blip=123 });

This is a pattern used in much of ASP.NET MVC (for example), and has other uses (a caveat, note also Ayende's thoughts if the name is a magic value rather than caller-specific)

Marc Gravell
This also has interop issues; not all languages support creating an anonymous type like that on the fly.
Brian
I love how nobody really answered the question, instead people provide a "this is better" argument. :p Is it an abuse or not?
Sam Saffron
@Sam ; er... yes?
Marc Gravell
It's all about readability. This approach involves more braces and `new` keyword. Could you add some thoughts why this (using anonymous-type) is `more flexible`?
Arnis L.
I would be interested to see Eric Lippert's reaction to this. Because *it's in FRAMEWORK code*. And it's just as horrible.
Matt Hinze
I don't think the problem is readability **after** the code has been written. I think the real issue is the learnability of the code. What are you going to think when your intellisense says *.Attributes(object obj)*? You'll have to go read the documentation (which nobody wants to do) because you won't know what to pass to the method. I don't think this is really any better than the example in the question.
NotDan
@Arnis - why more flexible: it isn't relying on the implied parameter name, which *might* (don't quote me) cause issues with some lambda implementations (other languages) - but you can also use regular objects with defined properties. For example, you could have a `HtmlAttributes` class with the expected attributes (for intellisense), and just ignore those with `null` values...
Marc Gravell
(ah, see the F# example above for an illustration of the lambda implementation wossit - I knew I'd seen it somewhere!)
Marc Gravell
+1  A: 

indeed its seems like Ruby =), at least for me the use of a static resource for a later dynamic "lookup" doesn't fit for api design considerations, hope this clever trick is optional in that api.

We could inherit from IDictionary (or not) and provide an indexer that behaves like a php array when you dont need to add a key to set a value. It will be a valid use of .net semantics not just c#, and still need documentation.

hope this helps

Horacio N. Hdez.
+18  A: 

This is horrible on more than one level. And no, this is nothing like Ruby its an abuse of C# and .Net.

There have been many suggestions of how to do this in a more straight forward way: tuples, anonymous types, a fluent interface and so on.

What makes it so bad is that its just way to fancy for its own good:

  • What happens when you need to call this from VB?

    .Attributes(Function(style) "width:100%")

  • Its completely counter intuitive, intellisense will provide little help figuring out how to pass stuff in.

  • Its unnecessarily inefficient.

  • Nobody will have any clue how to maintain it.

  • What is the type of the argument going in to attributes, is it Func<object,string> ? How is that intention revealing. What is your intellisense documentation going to say, "Please disregard all values of object"

I think you are completely justified having those feelings of revulsion.

Sam Saffron
I would say - it's completely intuitive. :)
Arnis L.
You say it is nothing like Ruby. But it is an awful heck of a lot like Ruby's syntax for specifying the keys and values of a hashtable.
Charlie Flowers
Code that breaks under alpha-conversion! Yey!
Phil
@Charlie, syntactically it looks similar, semantically it is way different.
Sam Saffron
OK, fair enough.
Charlie Flowers
+14  A: 

Both of them. It's abusage of lambda expressions AND syntax brilliance.

Arnis L.
So it's a brilliant syntactical abuse of lambda expressions? I think I agree :)
Seth Petry-Johnson
+47  A: 

Just wanted to throw in my opinion (I'm the author of the MvcContrib grid component).

This is definitely language abuse - no doubt about it. However, I wouldn't really consider it counter intuitive - when you look at a call to Attributes(style => "width:100%", @class => "foo")
I think it's pretty obvious what's going on (It's certainly no worse than the anonymous type approach). From an intellisense perspective, I agree it is pretty opaque.

For those interested, some background info on its use in MvcContrib...

I added this to the grid as a personal preference - I do not like the use of anonymous types as dictionaries (having a parameter that takes "object" is just as opaque as one that takes params Func[]) and the Dictionary collection initializer is rather verbose (I am also not a fan of verbose fluent interfaces, eg having to chain together multiple calls to an Attribute("style", "display:none").Attribute("class", "foo") etc)

If C# had a less verbose syntax for dictionary literals, then I wouldn't have bothered including this syntax in the grid component :)

I also want to point out that the use of this in MvcContrib is completely optional - these are extension methods that wrap overloads that take an IDictionary instead. I think it's important that if you provide a method like this you should also support a more 'normal' approach, eg for interop with other languages.

Also, someone mentioned the 'reflection overhead' and I just wanted to point out that there really isn't much of an overhead with this approach - there is no runtime reflection or expression compilation involved (see http://blog.bittercoder.com/PermaLink,guid,206e64d1-29ae-4362-874b-83f5b103727f.aspx).

Jeremy Skinner
I've also tried to address some of the issues raised here in some more depth on my blog: http://www.jeremyskinner.co.uk/2009/12/02/lambda-abuse-the-mvccontrib-hash/
Jeremy Skinner
It's no less opaque in Intellisense than anonymous objects.
Brad Wilson
+1 for mentioning that the interface is added via *optional* extension methods. Non C# users (and anyone offended by the language abuse) can simply refrain using it.
Jørn Schou-Rode
+3  A: 

IMHO, it is a cool way of doing it. We all love the fact that naming a class Controller will make it a controller in MVC right? So there are cases where the naming does matter.

Also the intention is very clear here. It is very easy to understand that .Attribute( book => "something") will result in book="something" and .Attribute( log => "something") will result in log="something"

I guess it should not be a problem if you treat it like a convention. I am of the opinion that whatever makes you write less code and makes the intention obvious is a good thing.

LightX
+2  A: 

It is an interesting approach. If you constrained the right hand side of the expression to be constants only then you could implementing using

Expression<Func<object, string>>

Which I think is what you really want instead of the delegate (your using the lambda to get names of both sides) See naive implementation below:

public static IDictionary<string, string> Hash(params Expression<Func<object, string>>[] hash) {
    Dictionary<string, string> values = new Dictionary<string,string>();
    foreach (var func in hash) {
        values[func.Parameters[0].Name] = ((ConstantExpression)func.Body).Value.ToString();
    }
    return values;
}

This might even address the cross language interop concern that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

dfowler
A: 

Can I use this to coin a phrase?

magic lambda (n): a lambda function used solely for the purpose of replacing a magic string.

citizenmatt
A: 

I think this is no better than "magic strings". I'm not much of a fan of the anonymous types either for this. It needs a better & strongly typed approach.

JamesK
+1  A: 

What's wrong with the following:

html.Attributes["style"] = "width:100%";
Tommy Carlier
+5  A: 

All this ranting about "horridness" is a bunch of long-time c# guys overreacting (and I'm a long-time C# programmer and still a very big fan of the language). There's nothing horrible about this syntax. It is merely an attempt to make the syntax look more like what you're trying to express. The less "noise" there is in the syntax for something, the easier the programmer can understand it. Decreasing the noise in one line of code only helps a little, but let that build up across more and more code, and it turns out to be a substantial benefit.

This is an attempt by the author to strive for the same benefits that DSL's give you -- when the code just "looks like" what you're trying to say, you've reached a magical place. You can debate whether this is good for interop, or whether it is enough nicer than anonymous methods to justify some of the "complexity" cost. Fair enough ... so in your project you should make the right choice of whether to use this kind of syntax. But still ... this is a clever attempt by a programmer to do what, at the end of the day, we're all trying to do (whether we realize it or not). And what we're all trying to do, is this: "Tell the computer what we want it to do in language that is as close as possible to how we think about what want it to do."

Getting closer to expressing our instructions to computers in the same manner that we think internally is the key to making software more maintainable and more accurate.

Charlie Flowers