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65

answers:

4

Hello,
I'm a student from france, and I'm passionated by building websites.
I don't care if it's about interface design, web design or web development, I love them all!

Although these domains are very related to each other, the educational world seems to make a huge difference between them so there are no studies having all of them (in France). Most are completely separated, some treat mostly one, and a little bit of the other ones.

I chose to go for the design side, as I already learned a lot of development by my self. (PHP - MYSQL - HTML - CSS - JAVASCRIPT)

What I would like to know is how this is in the professional word. Are they "separated" like this, or can you do a little bit of all ?
And also, who do they look/recruit for more ? Designers, developers or people that do both ?

Thanks ahead,
Daan

+2  A: 

I have been self-employed for seven years now, doing both development and interface design a lot. I have no formal education in any of the fields and been a self-learner. Looking back, if I knew then what I know today, I might have taken a different path and studied at least some Computer Science - it might have saved me some lessons I had to learn very painfully "in the field". On the other hand, studying would have bored me to death :) And I gained a lot of practical experience this way, so it probably evens out.

My personal experience has been that the real bread is in Web development. Always easy to get jobs, and good money. Not that pure designers starve, but it's my impression that it's harder to come by jobs for them. Developers have the great advantage that their work is perceived as more important in daily work, and it's easier to measure cost and benefit.

Learning PHP, SQL and Javascript on your own is great, but I always recommend to get a bit into computer science theory as well, and maybe also do some work with a more structured and strict language than PHP. PHP is great but it's not a good programming teacher IMO.

Strict languages like Java, C++, C# or Delphi will encourage or enforce the use of programming patterns, using proper declarations, dealing with memory usage, enforce the use of OOP and so on. I started programming with Pascal and Delphi, and while I don't use these languages in everyday work anymore, they taught me a lot of structure and discipline I am still thankful for.

Having mastered a strict language that allows no mistakes (as good ol' PHP does) to some extent is really, really useful on the long run.

I can't say much about what the academic world has to offer but I'm sure there have to be combined courses and programs that teach both high-level design and development. I have seen such offers in Germany, and it can't be that different in France. Be sure to take a good look around!

Pekka
Thanks for that reply, great to hear your story. Except teaching me logic, I don't really see the reason for studying science. It may teach me some logic, but there are other ways for that.Anyways, I'm aware I need to "learn it the correct way" at school. I'm also aware there's more work for developers, and that they get more money, but it's more important to me to do what I like then earning money. My main objective is to make the web better. I have already done some root languages (opcode and binaries) which allowed me to discover how other languages work, and I'll check out some C++
Daan
@Daan if you do assembly, you probably already know more than I thought. :) You should always work what you love, that is my view too. But it is always wise to also take into consideration what puts bread on the table.
Pekka
Yeah, I go for the bread, but after that, I don't care if there's nothing on it rather than Nutella®, as long as I'm doing what I want, if you see what I mean :p
Daan
Interesting. As a freelancer myself, my impression is just the opposite of yours. I find it very difficult to come by pure development (i.e., not expected to also do graphic design) gigs because nobody seems to recognize that there needs to be something more behind what they see on the screen.
Dave Sherohman
@Dave interesting comment. My experience is that customers find it easier to justify spending money on something that *visibly* speeds up business processes (We spend x amount now but bookings can then be processed x% faster). However, I can see how people would see a UI mockup, and then not understand that the finished product will take another 4 weeks. I mean, it's *there*, right? But, I am *always* required to do some design, too. It's just that it's harder to get money for, for a similar reason ("I like the sketch, why do you need to work another day on it before it's done?")
Pekka
@Daan, I know exactly what you mean, I've had my share of days when I had to figure out how to buy lunch and dinner with €2 (which can be done with a can of chopped tomatoes, spaghetti, a pack of rice, and two peppers) . I don't regret any of those days but they have taught me the value of having some reserves. Not that I don't still do exactly what I want to do, though. :)
Pekka
So, to resume what you just said: they can calculate the performance gain of a development job, but they can't exactly figure out the improvements of an interface or graphic upgrade. (Everybody knows interface design makes your business more attractive and useable) This said, any client will more likely pay you for a script upgrade rather than a visual upgrade because that remains too risky?
Daan
@Daan, always note, I am talking about *general tendencies*. There are many businesses that understand the huge value of good design. In fact, the awareness for that is increasing IMO, especially also among small and mid sized businesses. But my experience is that when times are difficult, it is easier to cut a budget for design, than it is to cut an IT budget. What I am *not* saying (just to be clear) is to choose IT over design for that reason. I think it's a great thing to work in both fields, and to bring them together.
Pekka
An example: When AS2 and the old Flash runtime was all they had, companies still made the decision to make whole sites in Flash. Why? Because a graphic designer alone, without a paid programmer, could fling it together using a visual tool and it would look good. That such such sites were so non-performant prompted an expensive upgrade to AS3 and Flash 10+, such that now you are REQUIRED to write more code to accomplish the same thing. I find it instructive that what made Flash catch on was how easy it was to make stuff look good, rather than how well it performed. It's an oft-repeated cycle.
Dustman
+1  A: 

It depends a lot on your organization. Some places (typically bigger companies) will have well-defined roles; these roles may be so strict that venturing outside of them might be seen as stepping on toes and frowned upon.

At other place (especially smaller companies), having many skills is a necessity. You may very well be the only technical person on a very small project, so being able to both program & design is critical for a successful & attractive project.

At this early point in your career, you have three options: specialize in programming, specialize in design, or have a mix between the two. The important thing to understand is that there are opportunities for great success no matter which route you choose. One route may be somewhat easier depending on your environment: for example, if there is a strong startup / entrepreneurial culture in your area then you'll have greater luck as a multi-skilled worker. However, the world is big enough that there's a niche for you to fill somewhere.

It matters far more what you do with your career than the specific path you take. Whatever you choose, do it well!

Craig Walker
+1  A: 

One other aspect that I'd like to cover: even if you decide to specialize in one particular area, it's almost always a good thing to branch out even just a bit into other related areas:

  • If there's something small / quick / simple in your project that needs doing but isn't in your specific area, you can still have a hope of doing it yourself. Without this skill, you'll have to spend time finding someone else to do it for you, and that can be wasteful / expensive. (But be careful with stepping on others' toes, as I mentioned in my other answer).
  • In a similar vein, you can potentially take on projects that wouldn't be viable if you had to hire on a subcontractor (for real pay). For example: I am a developer, and I can build my own software products with no investment other than my time. I am a good enough designer that I can (just barely) not make a horrible mess of the graphic design for my own products. If I couldn't do design at all, then I'd have to pay someone to do it for me; that means I'm now investing both cash and time. That may be a bigger risk than I'm willing to take; being able to do it myself means that there's more opportunity.
    • On the other hand, do not get too carried away with this; you have to know when to hand a task over to the specialists to do a better job than you.
  • If you do need to interact with other specialists in other fields (and you will at some point), you'll be able to more easily understand and communicate with them if you know their language. (You may also be able to tell when they are telling lies or talking nonsense; there's lots of bad "specialists" in any industry)
  • Sometimes it's nice to get a change of pace from your regular duties. Doing front-end user interface work is a nice change of pace from back-end coding all day long.
  • Also, it's good to get your feet wet in other areas to see if you might enjoy them more than what you've chosen. No decision is final; you may find yourself changing career paths at some point.
Craig Walker
thank you, that helped me a lot to illustrate the professional world.The "change" reason is why I wanna keep doing both of them.I love developing, but doing it all day long will make it a boring routine. However, I can't get enough of it of designing, so I might turn into design with some extra developer skills.
Daan
+1  A: 

Clueless management in professional companies that aren't aware of the kind of work they want done seem to dominate here in North America, and the educational facilities here don't help them out at all.

To illustrate, I can take "web development programs" a three separate post-secondaries around here, and each will give me a different certification. The University of Victoria will issue me a Diploma of Engineering, Vancouver Island University will give me a Diploma of Arts and Sciences, and the British Columbia Institute of Technology will allow me to have a Diploma of Computing Science, all for very similar coursework.

Looking for jobs around here results in similar issues. I've interviewed with people who think that being a "web site guy" somehow qualifies me to install and configure servers, change other people's websites, design logos or other online marketing materials, or in one case even hack into a competitor's office computer and destroy the contents! They're all computer stuff, right?

I guess the bottom line is that while we as programmers and so forth are aware of the differences between the different disciplines that make up the broad field of web development, few professional positions cater well to those divisions. The only exceptions I've seen so far are firms solely dedicated to web development and/or hosting, who usually seem to understand that visual design is a very different beast from code, and different yet again from actually administering a live site.

Dustman