views:

1950

answers:

23

Have you ever been fired before, or one of your colleagues?

What were the main reasons for him being fired?

The objective of this question is to get a list/description of other peoples experiences too see if we can come up with a theme of why people are let go.

For those that work for consulting companies, I would guess one of the main reasons would be a developer is just too slow pumping out code.

So my guesses would be:

 1) attitude 
 2) too slow

Please specify if you are saying something from experience or just guessing.

+2  A: 

I'd say 2 is just asking for trouble - It's very difficult to prove that a programmer isn't performing because he's lazy or isn't good enough, and not because of changing spec, vague assignments, external factors, unreasonable expectations etc. Unless you have a number of programmers doing provably similar tasks, I doubt this is often the official reason.

Draemon
Proof doesn't have anything to do with it. It's the perception of lack of work that's the killer.
Kevin
Proof has a hell of a lot to do with it if you don't want to end up at the wrong end of an industrial tribunal.
Draemon
@Draemon, @Kevin - Cultural and national differences are at play here probably in the contrasting labor environments between the U.S. and the UK. Most employment in the U.S. is "at will", meaning that the employer is allowed to terminate the employee without cause with little to no notice. Exceptions to this are mainly government workers and anyone covered by a labor union contract. Only 12% of the work force is in labor unions, and programmers are not unionized.
Joel Hoff
Thanks for the insight Joel
Draemon
A: 

Just a guess: Posting too much subjective questions on StackOverflow?

Mr. Brownstone
Or at least, not making them wiki...
Greg
+8  A: 

Consistently missing deadlines has to be a biggie.

I'd say being a bad fit (i.e. bad attitude) must also feature high.

Galwegian
I didn't know anyone made software project deadlines.
Brian Carlton
+5  A: 

Based on what I've seen in the past:

  • They crashed the production system (again)
  • They lied on their CV
  • To be made an example of to others
Sean
+1  A: 

It also depends on the country you're in - I'm assuming you're talking about the US here. In some countries, it's very difficult to fire an employee solely on the base that he's not working fast enough for the manager. So if a programmer gets fired in those countries, it's probably because (s)he did something really serious, like an NDA breach or a made a really costly mistake (in terms of money, client trust, reputation, etc).

Carl Seleborg
+2  A: 
MadKeithV
+6  A: 

I have had to recommend people be fired/let go for the following reasons ...

  • Poor attitude
  • Distributing propoganda at work (NRA material) ... I agree with the NRA ... just not at work
  • Contractor was working on work for ANOTHER company while on my payroll instead of on my work
  • Poor coding/lack of knowledge (had someone who used alot of 1-2 letter variable names, made the code extremely confusing, warned him repeatedly but the style never changed)
  • Taking too much time on a project. I.E. Spent a dollar and saved a dime ... not good business sense.

Those were the biggest reasons. Never had anyone start an altercation or threats of voilence etc.

Scott Vercuski
National Rifle Association?
MadKeithV
Yes ... the National Rifle Association
Scott Vercuski
The NRA material were rifles? In that case, I'd second the firing :)
Daniel Daranas
John: Love to fire!Bill: John, you're fired.
RamyenHead
+17  A: 

Most people I know who have been fired have been fired for having some sort of conflict with the boss. Like making a demand and the boss calls their bluff, etc.

Bad programmers just seem to get given bitch work / no raises until they quit.

FigBug
I agree with these observations. I've never seen anyone fired for incompetence; bad programmers are just encouraged to seek work elsewhere. The only firings I've seen were due to insubordinations and conflicts with management.
Kristopher Johnson
+5  A: 

I have not been personally released from a position, but I have seen my coworkers go. Now that I am in a position to be the one with the ability to fire, as well, I understand some of the reasoning behind what I have seen before a little more clearly.

In no particular order, here are some reasons that a person should be subject to termination (depending on your company, possibly after being placed on probation - not saying that all of these are immediate grounds, but more of a partial litmus test):

  • Inability to adapt to new technology.
  • Inability to work with other team members (personality issues, etc.).
  • Inability to delivery quality work.
  • Inability to show up to work on time, or work a minimum number of hours
  • Inability to follow direction.
  • Inability to work within their role (i.e. Sr. Developers who don't mentor, etc.)

Like I said, these are all parts of the puzzle, and are not likely to be means for an immediate dismissal. Normally, these things need to accrue and eventually become a larger part of the whole.

joseph.ferris
+1  A: 

The main reason I have seen people fired was because they were unable to adapt to new ideas, unable to meet deadlines because of their inability to adapt.

That and the fact they most of their "production code" was rewritten by someone else to pass QA

WACM161
+2  A: 

The one time I witnessed someone get fired it was a contractor who lied about the hours he billed.

It doesn't get any more clear-cut.

Michael Borgwardt
+5  A: 

I've seen people sacked for inappropriate behaviour -- saying inappropriate things in front of the customer (badmouthing the company that provides your paycheque in front of the customers is not a good idea).

Stewart Johnson
+2  A: 
HLGEM
+15  A: 

I've sat in meetings where my CEO and CTO have both denied responsibility for hiring "Chris".

Chris had many many complaints about his extreme anti-social tendencies, and the quality of his work from clients. His colleagues had complained about his technical ability and his attitude to others. He shouted, screamed, didn't turn up sometimes, hung-up on support calls. He (badly) rewrote production code in other peoples projects at whim. Goals were set and not met.

He received three written warnings I know about and any number of verbals. Evidence was documented, a folder was built up.

Duly, Chris was not given a pay-rise - even inflationary - for three years, and was slowly given less and less new work by the PMs.

Eventually the company was sold off, and some were made redundant by the merge. Not Chris.

The new parent failed to understand the business and drove the good people away until the production division became unprofitable and they closed it in favour of offshoring to a third party. Only three of the staff were kept on, working from the sales office a couple of hundred miles away.

Chris was one of them.

He's still there now.

I can't even begin to imagine what it takes to get fired.

annakata
Wow that's insane! I have seen a similar thing myself with very poor programmers not given work, rather than walked out the door
Barry Jones
Sadly, an all too common scenario. I used to work for a company where I had no control over who was put on my team and had no power to fire them. After many incentives and numerous writeups and warnings, I could do nothing - I was forced to "promote" them to other departments to get rid of them.
BenAlabaster
This does not answer the question but raises a new one- What are non-technical and non-business domain knowlege that keeps you employed?
Phil
A: 

I contracted in a place where this one guy was let go for "demotivating the team". He was constantly moaning about the product, the tools, the other developers. And he would sit and browse job sites all day at work. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did.

However, far and away the main reason I've seen people let go is of course layoffs.

Winston Smith
Just consider: maybe the guy they let go was right and they should have fired half of their team instead. Not a viable option, right? Solid programmers never stick around very long in crappy companies. In the end, crappy companies become a sink for crappy programmers.
Seventh Element
+6  A: 

Wasting too much time on StackOverflow... :oP

BenAlabaster
This really belongs in the comment section of the question asked, not as an answer.
Dalin Seivewright
Hey - it's a valid answer that could also be taken humorously...
BenAlabaster
Its basically Reputation Farming and I'm sure that was your intent.
Dalin Seivewright
Not everyone's out purely to build a reputation on here. Some are here to help, to get help or just for their own sheer amusement to pass the time. I help where I can to repay the favour of assistance when I need it. Reputation will be a byproduct of my involvement, I don't need to "farm" it.
BenAlabaster
I agree, this is just a humor response. Plenty of similar answers found all over this site; they're allowed. No +1 from me though because I hope it's not true...
Outlaw Programmer
Some are even here to talk too much in the comment section...
pi
@Dalin - chill dude. In a couple of the Stackoverflow podcasts Joel and Jeff joke about this.
Chuck Conway
A: 

There is a distinct difference between being fired and being made redundant; there are common factors though. The reasons that might get you fired will overlap with the reasons that might mean that you're the one being let go rather than being kept around.

So a huge possible reason is breaking the law, or at the very least, ignoring or being ignorant of the regulations.

Not doing your job is quite important, but the law in most developed countries sides generally with the employee here - if you're not doing your job there are hoops that your employer needs to jump through. Several times, though, paying someone off is the easiest way out of this.

Having a bad attitude isn't really grounds for dismissal, your employers weren't forced to hire you in the first place and weren't force to retain you at the end of your probation period. If they then decide that your face doesn't fit, see the previous point.

Employing people is actually quite expensive, the general rule of thumb in the UK at least is to double the salary (once you've considered tax, NI, pension contributions and the marginal cost of office space, etc.) but you've also then go to consider the cost of not having someone in that position.

Ultimately getting fired (as opposed to laid off) is actually quite hard.

Unsliced
A: 

Wasting too much time on StackOverflow... :oP

Hahaha, but stackoverflow feeds our souls...its neccesary to hang around

Rulas
+1  A: 

In my case, Visa issues were the reason, mainly being that the H1-B I had been on for the past 5 years couldn't be extended and there wasn't enough time to get the paper work done for a green card, a.k.a. lawful permanent residency.

In other cases where I've worked, there have been layoffs where the company just couldn't keep paying the bills or they weren't carried over when the company or its assets were acquired.

JB King
+2  A: 

MMORPG addiction and all that comes with it such as playing on the job, showing up late, sleeping on the job etc...

Daniel Auger
damn right !!!!1
andyk
A: 

Wasting too much time on StackOverflow... :oP

But its necessary our boss should understand that we need to feed our souls ñ_ñ

Rulas
A: 

The colleagues I've seen fired were each for gross incompetence. Essentially, it was clear that they were not up to snuff for the job so their managers gave them very carefully spelled out tasks with very reasonable deadlines. The work or lack thereof was reviewed and when found to be wanting, they were given the boot.

I also saw the same thing done to someone who was not grossly incompetent. His manager didn't understand his job and his constraints. He completely every task in a timely manner and done well. He kept trying to explain that his job description was more than full time. Finally he left out of frustration and they had to hire three people to do what he did alone.

plinth
A: 

I've seen very few people fired in > 25 years of working. Two that come to mind where

  1. Someone who refused to do support in our very small company
  2. Someone who ignored a direct order not to check code into a specific branch and actively worked around security restrictions.

I've known plenty of people who should have been fired tho.

Fortyrunner