Just out of school, plenty of opportunities but no actual bites

Question

I have a BS degree in Materials Engineering. I went back to school to change my career to software development. My engineering school has a certificate program for BS degreed engineers to change careers to computer science. I spent the last couple of years completing this program with a 3.8 gpa. I am in a pretty decent market for software developers (RTP, Raleigh-Durham area), but I seem to have trouble finding a job. I understand the market being bad but I have been on plenty of interviews phone and in person (15+ so far). I guess my question is, I have interviewed with 3 companies (2 interviews a piece for 2 of them, and 3 interviews for the third one), why do I keep getting call backs and positive feedback from these companies only to be told after weeks of effort that they are looking for someone with more experience?

I am a recent grad, the certificate course has all of the programming intensive courses that B.S. CS students take, I have gone to great effort to learn JSP, .NET (C#) and have even built a website with ASP.NET, CSS, JavaScript, ADO.NET. My last semester I coop'd with IBM learning to develop software using Java. Anybody have any advice on how to get from the 2nd, 3rd callback to an actual job offer? Thanks guys, I am new here so I figured I would give it a shot by asking the gurus!

(edit: There seems to be some confusion on how many companies I have interviewed with. I have interviewed with over 15 in the last 2 months... I am just frustrated with the ones (3) that call me back over and over and seem happy with me... it is frustrating when I feel my time is wasted.)

Answer 1

Ahhh fresh meat! The best advice I ever got (from a CEO of a very successful company) was "Harrass the hell out of people. I mean really annoy them. Call them back, show them you're eager to work for them and that you not only need a job, you want a job."

Now, that doesn't mean go crazy and call every day. But call the companies with which you had successful interviews and speak with your interviewer or their secretary and say "I was just touching base with you regarding our interview last week. I thought it went very well and I'm really excited about the opportunity. Please let me know when a spot becomes available."

I'm telling you, there was one time that I did very well in an interview, never got a call-back, so I called one morning and said almost verbatim what I just wrote here -- within 30 minutes I got a call back with a job.

Sometimes, people get busy and they forget! Your mission is to not let them!

Answer 2

It's a tough market right now, no doubt. You're coming out into the worst economy in the US since the early 80s.

No specific advice, because every local situation is different. Keep plugging. Try to expand your geography if you can. Are you using a headhunter? Monster.com? Newspapers? Craigslist? Dice.com? Lots of places for listings, but those aren't always jobs.

Answer 3

Several suggestions:

1. You may need to work on your people skills, could be that during your interview, you did not show enough enthusiasm or ask enough 'good' questions. A lot of interviews is a process about whether or not you think you can work with that person rather than their technical skills (usually a degree from an accredited university with a good gpa is enough for that).

2. Don't hesitate to call them back and demonstrate that you really want to work for them.

3. The economy right now is a bad time for finding a job, so be patient.

4. Expand your horizons. Unless you have a desperate need to stay in one area, don't hesitate to look for jobs elsewhere.

Answer 4

This is discused wildly everywhere, and since I am not from USA I can't really know what your classes and "gpa" means, but in Europe I find it that companies rely more on previous (real world) experience and not school averages or accomplishments.

If I'd give you advice is try to get some references, do some low paying or even free work (instead of payment, get references which you can use later to get a real job) and try to stand out of the crowd. I can't really help you, but have you tryed using any connections? I'm sure you know somebody that knows somebody else who can get you a entry level job, just to get you started.

The problem is that on virtually every coding forum there is a question just like yours, and that just proves how important your uniqueness will be!

Answer 5

I know that we still have trouble finding qualified candidates for positions at the University. Perhaps if you expanded your search area to include places (like Iowa) where the economy is not as bad as other places, that would help.

FYI: http://jobs.uiowa.edu

Answer 6

I feel that my interview skills are pretty good. I get compliments on my enthusiasm from just about everyone I have interviewed with. I spent a semester cooping with IBM to gain experience but they are in a hiring freeze and actually laying off. It is just frustrating that I get two and three callbacks to companies for more interviews and get excellent feedback from the interviewers just to be told, sorry you don't have enough experience.
I guess it is the old credit problem. You need experience to get get a job but you can't get experience without the job. Like I said I have been spending all of my free time, when not applying for jobs, learning new technologies and building out my website to display skills.
It is frustrating to get so many call backs because if I don't have enough experience to begin with then why waste everyones time? One of the companies even gave me a quiz and said I did fantastic, which is why I got the 3rd interview with them. Just very frustrating.

Answer 7

Are you asking questions that show you want the job or are you just asking some textbook questions to go through the motions? Recruiters may be useful though do be careful that sometimes you're just another resume in their database in some cases, or at least that was my experience.

Sometimes it just takes a little persistence and trying to find that company that may not be publicly saying, "We want people!" but are open to hiring someone if they come along and find that manager that wants an extra body but doesn't want to spend lots of time trying to find someone. If you have some classmates in your CS classes that have jobs, ask them if their company is hiring for the type of work you want to do, which may be an important point in all of this: Do you know what you would like to do and also have the skills to do well?

Answer 8

It took me over a year to get a real computer job. The first one is tough, but after that it is usually pretty easy to get a new job in the field.

Answer 9

Lots of great advice in this thread.

One thing I would add is to network in the local users group as well. Be it Linux, PHP, Java, whatever your pereference is, the local groups are a good place to go find people already in the industry. It is very common for people to say, "hey my company is looking for X." If you are on good terms with the individual, it may end up being the reference that distinguishes you from other applicants. Commonly, you will find that the job posting was never public, it was a manager asking their employees if they know anyone who fits their criteria.

So follow the great advice in this thread, and don't forgot to network in the real world.

Answer 10

"I have interviewed with 3 companies"

That is not "plenty of interviews", regardless of the market or profession. If you're expecting to get a job after just 3 attempts, you have very unrealistic expectations.

You can often expect to apply to 100s of jobs and maybe interview at 10 or 20 of them before getting even a single offer. This is as true in Computer Science as it is in just about any industry, though it didn't feel like it for a while in the 90s.

Answer 11

Its always tough when starting out, you may have to settle working for a smaller or less desirable company just to get off your training wheels...After a couple of years of experience then it should get easier.

Bending the truth just a little bit can help - although I do not believe this is the best thing to do.

Otherwise unless your a standout academic performer, then youll have lots of intense competition with other graduates of your calibre and skillset.