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767

answers:

14

Duplicate:

Why is IE6 still a corporate favorite in some organizations?
How to (kindly) ask your users to upgrade from IE6?

I am really tired of dealing with IE6. I want to do something about it. I appreciate the work put into the Stop IE6 Campaign. Thanks guys! However, I'm not sure they're really attacking the problem.

Why are people still using an eight-year-old browser? What reasons do you know of, personally, from your family or friends? Is it just ignorance, laziness, negligent IT staff, or even (god forbid) preference? I've heard plenty of speculation, but few personal accounts, and even fewer hard statistics. If you know of actual surveys, I'd love to see that as well.


EDIT: Thanks for those of you giving specific examples. It seems like a lot of people don't understand why I'm asking this, because it's so obvious. To clarify, I agree that "Most people couldn't care less" is the most likely answer. And as to whether there's anything to be done about this, the consensus seems to be "nothing". I kind of agree with this too, though I'll do what I can. But how prevalent has this reason been for you personally? What other reasons are there, particularly on the business front? What specific applications are tying people to IE6?

I'm entirely serious about this question. My goal is to be able to actually do something, like change how I treat IE6 on my sites, or even offer specific upgrade services. Whatever it takes. I just want to find out what road to go down.

A: 

Because most of them don't know that there exists a browser called Firefox.

And yes, some of my friends (who know about other browsers) even make of me when I ask them to switch to a browser with tabs. Their answer is typically, "We prefer Microsoft, it's easy to use, not Linux and Firefox. You carry on your work Mr. Open Source."

I know, it's total ignorance.

artknish
But that doesn't answer why they haven't upgraded to IE7, which has been offered automatically on Windows Update for ages
jalf
@jalf: I really don't understand them. One guy said that he finds tabbed browsing confusing! Trust me, there are guys like this. I'm tired of arguing with them.
artknish
Maybe they updated once, and had problems. I had a laptop once that was subject to intermittent hangs past one update I never did identify (after having it hang during a system restore, which was an interesting problem to solve). Maybe it came with automatic update off, and they never noticed.
David Thornley
Also, if I'm not mistaken, pirated versions of windows can't be updated via windows update. Another set of people that won't be updating anytime soon.
Gavin Miller
@LFSR: LOL! That's probably correct. And in our company, the IT department suggests us not to upgrade 'cause it may break some internal apps.
artknish
Not a suggestion here. Upgrading *does* break internal sites.
EBGreen
Pirated versions of windows can be updated. By design, in fact. This is to protect the security of other, perhaps more legit boxes.
2-bits
Thanks for this answer, I hadn't really considered this, especially about tabbed browsing. Is "Open pop-ups in new tabs" on by default in Firefox? Maybe it shouldn't be, until more people get used to it...
Jerph
+29  A: 

Most folks couldn't care less about what browser they are using.

Do you care if all the plumbing in your house is up-to-date? I'll bet a plumber would shake his head at the state of the pipes and drains in my home and yours. Yet we don't care as long as those pipes and drains get the job done.

Andrew Hare
Even worse, lots of people don't even know they are using a browser.
Gamecat
What's a browser? I just use the web.
Jon B
What's a web? I just click on "the internet." :-)
tvanfosson
What's the web? I just use AOL.
Judah Himango
What? I just use computer.
artknish
What's a computer? I just have a fancy cup holder.
AaronS
What I don't understand is how come, if I search for sites using the latest Google web page, they don't automatically come down as IE7 instead of IE6. I know it's the latest version, because I hit "refresh" like five times.
Steve Jessop
Excellent "real world" analogy
Gavin Miller
To actually respond to this comment, I think the analogy is good. I only care about my plumbing if it's leaking or costing me money. No one is missing out on the web by using IE6, because we write around it. IE6 is not "leaking". But now I want to distribute Coke through the water system and the old plumbing can't handle it. The question is, what *specifically* would have to change to get people to upgrade their plumbing so that I can give them free Coke?
Jerph
+5  A: 

Mostly spite

Gavin Miller
+1 - made me chuckle. "I hate your website, so I'm going to visit it with my aged browser. Take that, The Man!"
Adam Davis
@LFSR, would you consider removing your close request? I voted up your answer!
Jerph
+1  A: 

My client company (A rather large one) still enforces the use of IE6 (Maybe because their apps use Active X? I have no idea but it is policy), it was a nightmare getting my web app that I was testing in Firefox to look correct... ugh.

CookieOfFortune
Could you ask them why. I'll rewrite their code! I'll do anything! :) Seriously, this is exactly what I'm looking for: why, exactly, are they not upgrading?
Jerph
I'm sure it's somewhere up in their bureaucracy, my direct contacts with the company don't know the reason.
CookieOfFortune
I have a similar client (large Government entity). They have an extensive and expensive approval process to authorize upgrades to software so they often don't bother. BTW: That client is also still standardized on IE6 and doesn't allow employees to upgrade.
JohnFx
+6  A: 

There are people still running Wind 95 and Win 98. There are people who have been explicitly told not to upgrade. There are people who don't want IE7 because of some of the other OS security features that come with it involve more dialogue boxes.

And then there are large installations, corporate, educational, or governmental, where some IE6-specific ActiveX or something else is used for a mission-critical application. It "works" in the eyes of management and accounting, so replacing it is nearly impossible.

Kalium
On the few sites I've just checked, I have no Windows 95, 98, or 2000 users, according to Google Analytics (not perfect, i know). I have 25% IE 6 usage. Are users of older windows versions actually a problem for anyone else?
Jerph
As far as OS security features, I find it hard to believe that people who don't like the dialogue boxes in XP SP2 make up a significant portion of IE6 users. But hey, that kind of non-intuitive answer is what I'm looking for. Do you know many people like this?
Jerph
My previous employers refused to upgrade machines that would be sent to client to SP2 specifically because of the dialogue boxes that came with the extra security measures.
Kalium
A: 

Non technical people typically look at any technical changes as opening up a can of worms they will not be able to deal with.

madcolor
Sometimes technical people do the same thing. How many times have you done an upgrade only to find yourself in a huge mess because the new version isn't quite as compatible as was advertised?
Chris Lively
+1  A: 

some people just use what another person installs on their PC, which is in the most cases WINDOWS XP SP1-2. Which has an "Internet" icon which is actually IE6.

chosta
+1  A: 

Because it came on their computer and to them IE = the internet. They don't even realise there's different versions and/or they're worried about updates breaking things. You can't get through to them, you need to wait until they get a new computer.

Macha
A: 

For most people, I'd think it was the browser that came with their computer, and they haven't had reason to upgrade their computer. For quite a few years now, computers have been good enough for most purposes, and there's no obvious need to upgrade.

For many businesses, I'd expect to find web apps that work in IE 6 and nothing else.

There's really no way to change this any time soon. The people in the first group won't notice any publicity campaign that goes on, and likely wouldn't know what to do in the first place. The people in the second group are locked in.

David Thornley
So, if people just need a reason, I should seriously degrade the experience for IE6 users, no? Wouldn't that work?
Jerph
It will make them less happy with your site. The less knowledgeable group will think it's all your fault, and the ones stuck with webapps still won't be able to change. I don't know that there's a good solution here.
David Thornley
Yeah, this is of course the worry. I really wonder how true it is though. It's the third rail of web development. The StopIECampaign method seems a light enough push that people wouldn't blame you.
Jerph
And, for commercial purposes, you could eventually write off the IE6 users as unlikely to spend much money on your site. After all, they haven't replaced their computer since when?
David Thornley
+2  A: 

Look at it this way - say you're Joe Sixpack. You, your wife, and your kid all share the family computer. You go online to check news, your wife checks her email, and your kid looks at pictures of silly cats. Given that you probably don't even know what a browser is, is there any reason whatsoever to upgrade?

whichdan
For these people, I think the stop IE6 campaign should be somewhat effective. Let them know what's out there, and give them a reason.
Jerph
I agree. For a lot of people it ain't broke so why fix it. Most of the reasons you and I would upgrade aren't going to click with a low-tech user.
JohnFx
+1  A: 

In an awful lot of cases, the problem is companies whose computers have to work with some ancient and proprietary intranet apps which only work in IE6.

As pointed out by others, many people simply don't care (or know) which browser they're using. This isn't as much an issue as it used to be, since IE7 has been offered as an automatic update on Windows Update for a long time now, so if you have a legit copy of Windows, and you haven't explicitly disabled updates, you should end up with IE7.

And of course, if you really want to help drive IE6 to extinction, the best you can do might be to put your money where your mouth is. Don't accept jobs that require you to target IE6. Or charge extra for time wasted on IE6 hacks. Of course this could mean you lose income, but it may also convince a few people that their new website doesn't need to work in IE6. Not if supporting it would add another 70% to the price.

jalf
If it's public facing, most companies have no choice and will pay for someone who knows how to code sites in a way to work across most browsers.
Chris Lively
Eventually, ALL of these people will need a new solution. IE6 will become the wrapper for their internal apps, and other browsers will need to be installed. I mean, right?
Jerph
+4  A: 

Some organizations use proprietary (borderline legacy) webapps that are validated to work in IE6. By validated, i don't mean merely tested. I mean documented to work as expected, which is important in dealing with certain areas such as pharma/FDA regulated stuff. It's those legacy apps that keep big orgs from switching to newer/different browsers.

NoCarrier
Great point, I've never considered this. Do you have any specific examples?
Jerph
Not examples per se - mostly proprietary or vendor apps that go through a lengthy validation/certification process. If ANYTHING changes - backend, frontend, browser - it needs revalidation which can be expensive.
NoCarrier
Well, I guess I'm just... well, dumbfounded by that. :) But even so, maybe the solution here is to get these people to use another browser for the general web. Maybe the right Firefox or IE plugin, or easy upgrade/maintenance system for these IE departments.
Jerph
A: 

you should take a look at this site (it's April fool, btw :P)

I guess some people still use it because it comes with the system (win XP). They don't want to (or know how to) upgrade, they don't know that other browsers exist.

Aziz
A: 

Because to many users "Internet Explorer" IS the internet.

John Isaacks