What is the most designer friendly web framework?

Question

As a programmer with zero design skills and a loathing for cross browser layout issues, what web frameworks have the best separation of layout code from business code?

Ideally the distinction between business code and layout code should be clear cut (as in separate source files, as well as logically), with the layout code easily understandable by design folks, and business code by the likes of me. Tool support for both perspectives is a plus.

So, for your language of choice (php, .net, ruby, python, java, etc.) which framework do you recommend?

Wicket is the best one I have found so far for Java, but there's still plenty of chance for layout code to intermingle with business code.

Answer 1

The purpose of MVC frameworks is to separate layout from business logic from data storage.

Most frameworks make it easier to separate these aspects, but you can still go against the spirit of the framework you're using and muddy it up with layout logic in the database model. Poor design and implementation isn't eliminated by these frameworks.

I have used CodeIgniter and CakePHP (both of which are PHP MVC frameworks).

CakePHP provides a lot of libraries and functionality but is generally regarded as somewhat slow (though it's more than likely fast enough for most needs).

CodeIgniter is quite lean and is regarded as one of the fastest PHP MVC frameworks. I've moved to this one simply because CakePHP had much more than I needed for my basic sites.

Before choosing which you'll use check out the features and try to pick the one which meets all your demands without providing too much you won't use.

Answer 2

Ruby on Rails!

Answer 3

In case you haven't seen this: What Java web framework best accomodates web ui designers?

Answer 4

On the Python side, I've heard good things about Django. I plan on experimenting with it when I get a chance. It appears to enforce strict boundaries between each of the layers, although I suppose you could mix business logic in the views if you really tried.

I've also heard good things for ASP.NET MVC in the .NET arena. However, I haven't experimented with it at all, so whether it keeps things well separated, I couldn't say.

In PHP, I've looked at a few, but some seem to be... overdone to put it mildly. While Symfony (for example) sounded interesting, it also seems to get very complex very quickly.

Answer 5

For my PHP backend I use CodeIgniter as suggested above and for my JavaScript I use Yahoo UI. It sounds like you are trying to, on one hand make the code easier to maintain and, on the other, remove cross-browser issues in coding. Your backend language will not solve the second one. I suggest that you look at YUI's css reset file or something similar for the front-end.

Answer 6

Smarty ? IMHO best template framework for separation of code. And you can still work with other frameworks.

And a thing about CodeIgniter: I asked some time ago people about it, and most says, that Kohana (based on CI) is better: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/717836/kohana-or-codeigniter

Answer 7

To be honest - I still prefer ASP.net, and with asp.net AJAX extensions it is (from my point of view) still the easiest, most versatile and best framework for creating web-applications.

I've tried java, jsf, gtk, spring, asp.net mvc and many other - but still. The ability to create good web pages/and application with pure asp.net still beats the others. Why? Asp.net is so well-tested... Things just work... Unlike many others where you keep hitting your head against the wall due to some stupid bug, or feature no possible to implement.

When it comes to dividing the UI, business logic and data logic - I still would say unless you need a 100% divided UI as view(MVC-pattern), asp.net is still the right choice. The dividing of code-behind and UI is good enough for most uses. People tend to yell out that MVC is much better when it comes to testing... Maybe yes... But untill now I've managed to do unit-testing without complications just as well with MVC and without MVC. It's more like instead of trying to blame it on the framework/pattern, try asking "Are we testing the right stuff - the RIGHT way...?" Set-up a good 3-layer webapplication, and you'll be creating good, easy to code web pages.

A note here: I usually receive PSD-files from my clients, which I ship to India for slicing and receive static HTML-pages. After a short modification, I'm up and running with my coded solution on the new design... Easy as that!

Now... On the other hand, it might just be because I know ASP.net the most ;)

Answer 8

Seaside. In all major Smalltalks (squeak, pharo, gemstone, visual works, VA, Dolphin, gst). It helps you avoid templates, which are a major code smell when trying to separate layout from business code.

It uses a generated code (+separate css) style of working. That means that you can refactor and structure the code well. From a Seaside example:

renderContentOn: canvas
canvas form
 class: 'eventEditor';
 with:[
  self renderWhoOn: canvas;
   renderWhatOn: canvas;
   renderWhenOn: canvas;
   renderWhereOn: canvas;
   renderIsGameOn: canvas;
   renderGameTypeOn: canvas;
   renderButtonsOn: canvas]

where the canvas class is a html builder. Smalltalk has cascades (;) so first self sends renderWhoOn:, and then self sends renderWhatOn:. The renderWhoOn: method looks like this

renderWhoOn: canvas
self decorateDivAndLabel: 'Who' on: canvas around: [
 canvas select
  id: tagId;
  selected: model who;
  list: model whoList;
  callback: [:value | model who: value]]

Smalltalk has anonymous methods (blocks). The decorateDivAndLabel:on:around: method first renders itself, and then the value of its block:

decorateDivAndLabel: aString on: canvas around: aBlock
canvas div: [
 canvas label
  for: (tagId := canvas nextId);
  with: aString,':'.
 aBlock value]

(strings are combined with a comma operator instead of +).