Should I go to school and get my degree in computer science?

Question

I'll try and keep this short and simple.

I've always enjoyed programming and I've been doing it since high school. Right after I graduated from high school (2002), I opted to skip college because I was offered a software engineer position. I quit after a couple of years later to team up on various startup companies. However, most of them did not launch as well as expected. But it honestly did not matter to me because I've learned so much from that experience.

So fast forwarding to today, now turned 25, I need a job due to this tough economic climate. Looking on Craigslist, a lot of the listings require computer science degrees. It's evident now that programming is what I want to do because I seem to never get enough of it. But just the thought of having to push 2 years without attending any real computer class for an Associates at age 25 is very, very discouraging. And the thought of having to learn from basic (Hello WOOOOORRLLLD) just does not seem exciting.

I guess I have 3 questions to wrap this up:

1. Should I just suck it up and go back to school while working at McDonalds at age 25?
2. Is there a way where I can just skip all the boring stuff and just get tested with what I know?
3. From your experience, how many jobs use computer science degrees as prerequisites?

Or am I screwed and better pray that my next startup will be the next big thing?

Answer 1

Get your degree. Ask the department if you can place out of the easier classes. You'll have to put up with a lot of courses you wont care about, but it's worth it. Some employers won't even bother to look at your credentials without some sort of degree.

Answer 2

"... am i screwed and i better pray that my next start up will be the next big thing?..."

C'mon Ryan, nobody's screwed at 25.

No one can make this decision for you. It depends a lot on your financial situation, what school you can afford and get into, what your real chances are of getting a job, etc.

You've got enough talent to try startups. Why isn't that enough?

I'm told that looking for jobs in want ads is for losers. It's all networking now. Did you not develop any contacts while working for those startups? Could you start using LinkedIn to develop and work a network?

But nobody's screwed at 25. You have no children, no wife, no house, no obligations. You can do whatever you put your mind to.

One more thought: Try to identify and catch on with a larger company that might support your educational aspirations while you work for them. I got that kind of deal as a mechanical engineer working for two firms. It's a great thing if you can do it. It's like writing yourself a raise every year that stays in your head forever.

I have degrees in mechanical engineering, but none in computer science. This is a field where it's not a requirement to have a degree to practice, except for one place - Google. If you haven't mastered the MIT algorithms course it's not possible to get past their phone screening interview.

Answer 3

Have you considered professional certification? For instance, if you've been using C# or VB.Net, there are the MCP / MCTS exams. This may at least give youn idea about whether you want to jump into a longer period of study, and may help you get a job.

Answer 4

I would recommend that you schedule a meeting with an admissions officer at your local community college/university. This does NOT mean you will enroll in classes, but it will give you more information to help you decide.

Answer 5

In most cases, job boards list things like "computer science degree" by default. There is nothing preventing you applying for a job, and if you are enthusiastic about what you do, and vaguely competent, you stand every chance. Be ready to talk about your on-the-job experiences, etc.

Put it this way: what have you got to lose by applying? Just don't ever claim (or imply by silence) to have a qualification that you don't actually have. Be open.

Actually, most of the best programmers I know have never studied computer science (although many of them did do the degree thing...)

Answer 6

Our field is full of entrepreneurs who succeeded despite dropping out of college (Gates, Jobs, ...) -- even Page and Brin, while they did get earlier degrees, never completed their PhD's (I believe they're technically in suspension rather than dropped out;-).

However, to focus just on such people is really betting everything on a lottery -- most people in our field have a degree, and most interesting jobs (except startups with people who know you directly) have gatekeepers who, right or wrong, do require a degree. I think you should byte the bullet and get your degree -- if you sniff around (depending on where you are) I think you'll find colleges who can offer you some temp programming jobs while you attend, which is going to be better than McD, at least;-).

I knew somebody who solved a similar situation by joining the military -- getting excellent practical training, reasonable pay, and credits for some of his training which later could get transferred to a regular college to complete a degree. However, to thrive in the military does require a certain kind of personality and mindset, and there will be no guarantee that they will in fact recognize your talents and train and deploy you accordingly.

Answer 7

1. Yes, you should suck it up and go back to school. Part of the value of a degree is proving that you can commit to something for a certain length of time. Another part is proving that you're not one-dimensional, that you can at least pass the General Ed parts of the requirements.
2. Yes, talk to the Dean of Computer Science at the university you plan to attend. They'll be able to tell you how much you'll be able to test out of or whatever due to your industry experience. But don't expect it to be much more than the basics.
3. Most jobs use a degree as a filter for people who "can't commit" or "won't fit in". All jobs use a degree as a deal-breaker if all other things about two candidates are equal. No matter what, a degree will be helpful.

I've been working as a professional programmer and tester for about thirteen years now. I do not have a degree, but I have attended college multiple times and never quite finished. While the learning of the degree was only helpful a few times, having a degree would have helped many times to get my foot in the door or perhaps to help me win out in a tough decision between myself and other candidates.

You're twenty-five. Take the time. Get the degree. Then be glad you have it out of the way and you'll never have to worry about it again.

Answer 8

I'd say the number of jobs that mandate a CS degree is 1 in 6. Most will be willing to sub experience for a degree and it sounds like you have that. Some are adamant about the degree, I'd put that number at 1 in 12.

On the other hand, if you can swing it now seems like the best time to be in school. The job market won't be back to full employment for 3 years is my guess (based on some graphs of past recessions). If you don't have a strong resume and you're not getting any action from recruiters by the end of summer then I'd head back to school.

Another thing to think about: lost money. School costs money and you won't be working in software while you're in school (unless you can find gig work). So you'll be losing potentially 300k in income in that 4 years if you're getting market rates. Add in school debt and the number gets worse. For me it was a no brainer because I wasn't making very good money without the degree (I have a BSEE).

Yes, you'll have to take some crap classes. Nature of the beast. Part of making you a well rounded person.

Bonus: sounds like a lot of your CS courses will be really easy for you.

Also, having a degree is part of being a professional. You can be a professional without the degree but most people who have degrees are much more professional than those who don't. Professionalism is nice to have from an employer's standpoint.

Answer 9

1. Should I just suck it up and go back to school while working at McDonalds at age 25?

That, or freelance web design :) It's flexible, pays well, and a little more fun. Not very consistent though.

2. Is there a way where I can just skip all the boring stuff and just get tested with what I know?

I suggest you go to whatever school you're looking at and just ask, or phone 'em up. Ask the CS department. Better than speculating. I know at my school you can challenge the course, and just write an exam for $50 I think. I've never done it though... I should have.

3. From your experience, how many jobs use computer science degrees as prerequisites?

You're right that a lot of companies ask for it.... I can't comment on how many actually use it. I'm just finishing my BSc now (4 years!), but none of the jobs I've had actually required it.

Answer 10

I love these types of questions. I was faced with a very similar issue when i started out. Out of high school I went into the Army where I spent several years in Ranger Battalion. Needless to say I never saw a computer of any kind...just lots of things that blew other things up! (that was fun).

When I got out of the military I had no idea what to do with myself so I started at ITT where I was introduced to computers by way of learning how to work Auto CAD. Classes were slow which led me to tinkering with the computer...I loved that more.

I dropped out and got a job with AT&T...then HP...the whole time learning by reading as many tech books as I could afford. Then I quit my job for 6 months so that I could build up several projects of my own so that I would have something to point back too (web sites and the like). Then I got a job with my first company doing web programming...doing what I love.

I think this is where you might be now.

Not having the college degree wasn't going to stop me. I started to consult...hopping from job to job every 6 months or so. I never took a job that I already new how to do 100%. I expected to have some on the job learning with each position. As I moved around I had a chance to learn many great people that were already well established in what they did...I listened to everything they had to offer and added that to my bucket of tools.

I eventually made my way up the job chain far enough that I started to interview with some BIG NAME companies. My lack of college degree was never an issue as I generally new more than the guy interviewing me...and I could talk very well about what I new. Of course there were times when this wasn't the case (if any of my past interviewers are reading this :P).

I hate to say that most of the big companies could no longer afford me. Small to medium size companies pay way better so as to be able to attract the talent! I interviewed at Northrup Gruman once. They wanted me real bad...thought I would be a great stepping stone for them. But when I told them my pay requirements I was literally told "we have PHDs that have worked here for more than 10 years that don't make anywhere near that!". I had to smile. I made more than a PHD!! Cool.

I used to think that that was cool any ways.

Then I went for an interview at Microsoft. A humbling experience. Pay was a big issue for them (everyone I interviewed with brought it up first). But for a name like them I think everyone is somewhat willing to sacrifice. I learned that day how important having the CS degree really was. Granted I really enjoyed working for the smaller companies...they moved faster, had less bureaucracy, shorter release cycles, and more opportunity to play with the new technologies. But what I didn't realize was that all the work I had done up to that point really didn't matter at the level that Microsoft is (and other similar companies).

Their interview process had pretty much nothing to do with any of the experience I had picked up in the previous 10 years. Every question they asked me would have been easy had I attended the most basic CS courses. Data structures and algorithms were the key focus there. On these topics I was largely squashed. Don't get me wrong...I crammed all I could to get ready for such questions...it just wasn't something I had a whole lot of experience with.

And it showed!

Now I have recently (last month) registered to attend Santa Monica College to get started back on my degree. I have finally reached a point where I value the degree. It is never to late to return to school - your 25...or my 33. I have always spent at least an hour or two learning something new each day...now it will be about non computer oriented things. But now it will apply to the degree that some (not all) companies seem to really value.

To answer you questions.

1. Yes. Go back to school. No...never ever work at McDonalds. The market is not barren at all. Send me a request and I will send you a list of 80 recruiters across the US that will find you a job programming like you love. Guaranteed.
2. In many cases - yes, you can test out of the various programming classes. Also, there are often prerequisites for a class...which at SMC doesn't require you to follow. Which means you can take a class that supersedes (the basics) another class so that you can get to what you love more quickly. You will still have to take english, history, and the other stuff which (at the moment) you may not enjoy that much.
3. Pretty much every company I have ever interviewed with will take "the right candidate" over the degreed candidate. This is based on how well you do in your interview, how well your history lines up with their requirements, etc. The Googles and Microsofts of the world are the only ones that I would have benefited from having the degree...but it was not required!

Feel free to contact me if you want the recruiter list. www.andrewsiemer.com

Answer 11

1. Yes, I'd highly consider going back to school. Don't forget that there is a network there that you'll be able to access when you are done that may also make it more worthwhile.
2. There may be schools that will let you take the final for a course to see if you know all the material already but I'm not sure how high such courses go as I remember my Chem 135 class having that kind of option to it. Don't forget that for some cases you could skip the classes and just take the tests which allows for a reduction in borihg time assuming the course is a multiple-choice exam that is best studied for by using previous years' exams.
3. Most jobs will use the degree as a filter from HR. Thus, most big companies will have someone from HR sift through the deluge of resumes and may take an initial cut as those with a degree. While most of the technical things I learned in university aren't used, there are skills that were developed in university that are still useful to me today and will be for the rest of my life: How to solve problems, how to justify a position in a formal way and elaborate where needed, basics of object-oriented programming.

I think you are screwed if you think your next job will be like finding that big winning lottery ticket and go for the big bucks instead of settling for something a bit more reasonable, e.g. don't think you have to hit a home run each time at bat, sometimes just getting a single or double will be plenty to get you far in baseball.

Answer 12

This year I've worked for two excellent and brilliant managers. One has a PhD in EE from MIT, the other has a high school diploma. Both are well-respected in the organization. The high school graduate is self-taught, and worked on various entrepreneurial ventures, culminating as the CTO of a startup my company bought.

A few years back at the World-Wide Web Consortium, I became friends with a CTO at a startup, and he also had no college education. In fact, he still wasn't 21! But he was one of the top contributors in our working groups.

So no, you're not screwed at all, as long as you take on challenging work and keep learning. Building up a lot of relevant experience and gaining a reputation after a while makes having no degree a moot point.

Answer 13

It's never too old to get back to school/college. And 25 is not old at all!

Economic situation apart, a degree from a good institution will always hold you in good stead (in my opinion). Even more so, if you have the experience to back you up (either attained before/after or whilst studying).

It gives you an overall view of things and teaches you things which you might not necessarily learn on the job (obviously, the converse is also true).

Answer 14

If all you want to do is find a job, maybe college isn't for you, or at least traditional college. You go to those to walk away a critical thinker, not necessarily a successful worker. College doesn't guarantee you a job. In fact, it's regrettable, but many employers today don't appreciate the critical thinker as much as they used to. If you do go to college, you'll assuredly experience "Hello World" in all its glory, but you'll also experience college as a whole, which can be rewarding in itself in many ways (networking for one), even if it never lands you the job you want. By the way, I didn't enter college till I was 28. You're never too old; or at least, they likely won't turn you away for your age.

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

Answer 15

IT companies sells people and their knowledge.
Even if company is liberal enough and understands that degree is not equals to knowledge -
there isn't any guaranty that people unrelated with IT will do.
It's all about money.

Degree helps to sell people more efficiently - it's a proper packaging for a candy.

I got no degree too. Trying to hack this problem with various certifications. ^^

Answer 16

Rule of thumb

Big sized company - will require a degree Medium sized company - some will ask for a degree some wont. Small company - just want to know you can do the job.

Yes of course you are at a disadvantage for not doing a degree but not a massive one.

Answer 17

Get the degree. Reasons:

1. in the long run you're likely to go through a handful of jobs, and each time the lack of a degree will hurt you.

2. a good liberal arts education will help you learn how to learn, improving your life-long potential.

3. while some of the programming parts of a computer science degree will be basic at first (your 'hello world' concern) any good program should quickly challenge you. Do you think nobody else entering a computer science program has coded before? At the worst, your experience will help you focus on the more interesting parts and excel while some of your peers are focused on understanding the syntax and semantics of the language.

4. younger is better. You're much better off going to school now at 25 than when you turn 40 and have even more commitments (and, frankly, a less agile brain).

Final words: a degree is worth infinitely more than professional certifications. Don't confuse one with the other.

Answer 18

It is always said that it is never too late to go to college, and 25 certainly is not too late. This should not deter you on your way of getting a CS degree. A CS degree will certainly not hurt. Computer Science degree programs have a broader career scope and thus it allows you to demonstrate your acumen in diverse computer fields. It equips you with the knowledge of programming, networking and database management. My suggestion would be not to defer on a CS degree and take action right away.

Answer 19

Please, try this: http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Answer 20

can i attend school on computer and be an engineer in furture