Hi. Lots of people have told me that i should not use a frame on my website. Now my question is, what should i use instead?
What do you guys think is the best solution for my shoutbox? http://www.anitard.org/indexx.html
+2
A:
You should use divs with CSS. Frames are not popular at all for many reasons. For some good jumping off points, check out:
Anthony
2009-09-08 16:44:35
Updated version at http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200609/css_frames_v2_fullheight/ but it's still pretty old.
Matt Ball
2009-09-08 16:47:50
Ive been told that websites with frames will be harder for search engines to handle, will this problem not be there if i use this method?
2009-09-08 16:48:35
Frames are harder for users to bookmark, harder for search engines to index, harder for designers to deal with. Overall the only benefit they offer is a static sidebar, which most people know right away means "outdated".
Anthony
2009-09-08 16:56:08
A:
If you are doing serverside programming like php then you can do like this-
# .... <tr><td>
#
# <?php
# include("/includes/menu.htm");
# ?>
#
# </td></tr>
# <tr><td>
#
# <?php
# include("/includes/header.htm");
# ?>
#
# </td></tr>...
Or the best alternative is you can use Javascript or AJAX.
Webbisshh
2009-09-08 16:47:00
No, it is ok, because it is done on server side.Frames are really bad for search engines.
Thinker
2009-09-08 17:00:33
Ok. But the best would be to not use anything like this at all? and just make it a part of the layout which means i would have to reload the shoutbox when i navigate.
2009-09-08 17:04:22
Server-side includes are very useful. They give you the management benefits of frames, but all of the lifting is done "behind-the-scenes" - the requester never knows that the page is actually managed in several disjoint parts.
Will Bickford
2009-09-08 17:39:35
+1-Hey,"Will" That was to the point, exactly, you rock! i should have written that b4
Webbisshh
2009-09-08 17:49:17
+2
A:
That totally depends on the content you are currently showing in the iframe, if it's another website the iframe is fine.
But if it's some part of your website, then you should think about putting the content in via some backend scripting language that builds the html page, instead of creating dozends of pages and glueing them together in a frameset.
Ivo Wetzel
2009-09-08 16:47:09
Or maybe not the backend scripting language but some form of combining. Don't forget about SEO, right?
Rap
2009-09-08 18:45:02
A:
http://www.anitard.org/indexx.html
What do you guys think is the best solution for my shoutbox?
Add this as an update or comment to your original question, not as an answer, since it's not actually answering your question.
Matt Ball
2009-09-08 17:07:22
There should be a delete link above (with the link, edit, and flag links), but maybe you need 100 rep to see it.
Robert Harvey
2009-09-08 17:37:55
+1
A:
If you're just trying to embed a shoutbox, do it with Javascript. Why are you concerned with it reloading when you navigate?
The example you gave actually illustrates really well why you shouldn't be using frames for this. It looks awful, and provides terribly usability. I didn't even see the shoutbox frame the first 3 times I looked!
Matt Ball
2009-09-08 17:10:50
A:
I agree with @Matt and @Pradyumma - if all you want is to add a shoutbox, embedded code is good way to go. It's simple and allows you to isolate the shoutbox details from your web page, if that's how you want to do it. An iframe is an ok option - it's just an 'inline frame', so if you're convinced frames are evil, this may not be a solution you're willing to go with. If you think your site is something you will be maintaining for a long time, you may want to consider a web application framework.
Some myth debunking. Frames are not 'Bad'. Frames have been in use for a long time and were very useful before tools like Dreamweaver or web application frameworks (Joomla, Cocoon, etc) existed. Frames went a long ways towards eliminating the excessive use of tables to control page layout. They also have saved a lot of bandwidth in the early web - frames containing navigation, menus, etc. content needed to be downloaded only once. Frames are not bad for search engines. I have no idea how this one started.
Frames do present usability problems. Ultimately, framed pages don't behave quite like regular html pages, so they are always going to present some usability issues for those visiting your site. You as the designer / maintainer have decide what technologies you can live with - what tools can you use, what time do have available to learn something new?
DaveParillo
2009-09-08 18:24:04
I would advise even more strongly against using tables to control your page layout. If it's a choice between frames and tables to control layout, I would choose frames. Maybe. I have used both. It's harder to get frame based site to behave / look consistent across browsers. It's a pain to make design changes to a table based pages. Any technology that helps separate content from appearance will help you. Php, asp, ajax. Use what works for you.
DaveParillo
2009-09-08 18:41:13