Should I really be expected to work more than 40 hours a week just because I am 'salaried developer'?

Question

My boss says that I shouldn't be counting hours, but I am only getting paid for a full time job 40 hours per week. I don't get it. I could be using the rest of the hours in my day to run a small side business and get more income. However I have noticed other people just working and working whatever hours to hit the deadline. How is this fair?

Of course the argument was 'if you worked more and increased your value then you will get more money'.

A friend I regard as one of the smartest people I know (engineered his own sonar system for example) said that you should never work beyond what you are getting paid for.

Thoughts?

Answer 1

Your friend is cent-per-cent correct. However, if the extra work adds to your knowledge and career prospects..DO NOT let this pass

Answer 2

That's how it works.

If you're hourly, you get paid by the hour, and if you work overtime you make more money.

If you're salary, you get a fixed amount of money to do your job even if it requires overtime. However, salaries often take into consideration that you might be working more than 40 hours a week.

I'm on a salary, and there are weeks when I work 50 hours and weeks when I work 37. This is unusual though -- in some corporate cultures, if you aren't seen working into the wee hours you are thought of as not being a team player.

Fortunately, at Inntec it has more to do with getting your work done on time and making the customers happy.

If you're working for somebody who abuses you, you can always quit and go work somewhere else!

Answer 3

Quit. Get better job. Or start your own business. Let your boss replace you with a machine. Get out while i can, i say!

Answer 4

Sounds like you'd be a lot happier working for a different employer. Truth is, there are many different kinds of employers out there, each with his own strengths and shortcomings. If you feel that you're not earning what you're worth, if you feel there's more challenging work out there for you, consider renewing your job search.

Answer 5

When you're salaried, you're paid to get the job done. If the job takes more than 40 hours a week to complete, then you'll need to work more than 40 hours a week. If it takes less than 40 hours, then you can work less than 40 hours.

Think of it as incentive to find ways to work smarter instead of working harder.

Answer 6

This is a give and take situation, but as a salaried employee you are not paid to "work 40 hours a week", you are paid to perform your role as defined by your title. If you do not think those expectations are reasonable then the law of two feet apply.

Answer 7

I'm going to buck the trend and say that your gut feeling is right.

If you feel that you're keeping up and out-performing your colleagues, then don't work any more than you have to, and start up the side business. Get the eggs in different baskets.

On the other hand, if you feel like you're going to get the axe, and don't have a back-up, then put the extra time in your job to rise to the top.

In any case, I wouldn't want to be looking for a job in this environment.

Answer 8

I can assure you that the accounting dept. "counts hours" when they are cutting your paychecks, calculating your time off, etc.

Answer 9

This is the classic problem of salaried jobs. Sometimes you're going to have to work over 40 to hit deadlines, and of course some employers take advantage of their employees by expecting this.

If your job doesn't satisfy your monetary needs yet asks for too much in return, leave.

Answer 10

you should never work beyond what you are getting paid for.

But you aren't working hourly. They dont pay you less if you leave early do they?

In most salaried positions, you can have two types of weeks: Ones where you get a lot done and skip out early. you still get full pay. Or you have to stay late to meet a deadline, you get paid the same. But in the end you get a steady paycheck.

Answer 11

You are asking the right question.

Salaried positions pay you to "do a job", not work X hours. As you pointed out, this can be manipulated using social pressures if your boss is of the type to do so.

Asking other employees about the expected hours to work before taking a job is a must, because you need to calculate that into your decision. Some salaried jobs really are 40 hrs while some are 80 hrs or even more.

Your pay should reflect this. Lawyers make big bucks because they are expected to work long hours.

To those who say you get to leave when the job is done, I would have to disagree and call that management propaganda. I have never worked at a company where it was OK to work 30hrs if that's what it takes. There is ALWAYS more to do. For that reason, you need to have reasonably clear expectations of how much to work and you need to be comfortable with them.

If not, start looking for another job. Good Luck!

Answer 12

I don't give a damn if I am salaried or not. When I negotiate my salary it is based on the 40hr week. It is ok here and there to do some overtime, but just because PM is incompetent, or other people around me don't get the job done, does not mean that I need to pull extra hours for nothing. You want my time, you pay for it. I have a life outside of work.

Answer 13

It's a double edged sword. If other's around you are putting in the hours and you are not this can look bad on you whether it's right or not. Your boss is expecting it of you, again this can look bad on you.

You need to find the balance you are comfortable with. Working 80 hours a week may be unacceptable but how about 45-50? How much are you getting paid? Getting low $ then you should consider if working long hours is worth it. Getting paid high $ for what you do then you have to consider that a little differently especially in today's market.

I am definitly not advocating being a slave to the company just think it through and find a balance you are comfortable with.

I would do some soul searching and figure out what is your long term goal and what you will do in the short to medium term. If your long term goal is to work 40 hours a week then start looking for employers who believe like you (they are out there). In the mean time you will have to likely compromise a bit with your desires and your companies expectations.

Good Luck!

Answer 14

Figure it out up front

The time to ask this question is before you take a job. If you're looking now, ask up front:

• How long am I expected to work? (Verify with current employees if possible)
• If I have to work more, am I paid extra? Given extra time off?

Get it in writing. If you'd rather be paid hourly than salary, say so.

You're selling your work for money. It's your responsibility to make sure you're getting a fair deal before you sign on.

If you're unhappy now, count it a lesson learned and make sure you know what you're getting into with your next job.

Answer 15

Scrum methodology says that you should not work beyond the 40 hour work week. Scrum has proven that the 40 hour work week provides more productivity than working over, at least as indicated by Ken Schwaber (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNPeTn8fpo).

The idea is that you're thinking about your current programming problem/task even when you're not at the office. This creates better, more thought-out code, and just as fast.

You need to take breaks each day to think about your implementation. You're basically giving yourself more design time by stepping away from the code. More design time means simpler, less buggy designs.

Answer 16

Normally, you shouldn't.

The deal has been arranged for 40 hours + probably a few legally allowed extra hours. A deal is a deal.

You can freely decide to work more if you feel obligated. Say, the employer pays you 150% of the usual market price and/or offers you benefits beyond the contract.

By agreeing to work more for no extra compensation you undermine the respect for you.

Remarks like "Work more to maybe get a pay rise" is a nonsense. It should be "Pay more and I may consider working more".

If you are regularly missing deadling by only working 40 hours then:

• You are not proficient enough (you would know that and not ask a question here in this case)
• The management is not good at planning work and assigning resources
• You are being given work for more than 40 hours to complete. This is a case of cost saving by the company. Since it does not bring you anything, no point in participating in it.

Should you be suggested that "There are many people there outside who would take your place and work more for no extra money", you can respond "There are many places there outside who would give me the same money and not require any extra hours".

P.S. I do count my 40 hours. Since I need my free time to work on some personal projects, I'm not going to sacrifice it.

P.S. #2. As it is widely known, programmers cannot work for more that 4-5 hours per day with full dedication and commitment. Forcing them to even stretch over 8 is pointless. My total coding time per day is though usually more than 8 hours (work + personal projects), but because of the context switch it works well.

Answer 17

As Tom DeMarco - a partisan of the 8 hour workday (actually, it might even be 7.5 hour) - and Tim Lister show in "Peopleware", everything above 40 hours per week is actually harming productivity if done regularly. You should put this book on your boss desk. And if it's not enough, lend then "Slack" to him.

Answer 18

My expectation for salaried employees (including myself when I are one) is not that they should work more than 40 hours a week all the time, but that they should be willing to do so when the situation requires it.

If I'm up all night preparing for a make-or-break rollout and I find that a co-worker is there helping me, that co-worker has made a friend and an ally, and I would certainly not complain if he ever blew off a (non-critical) afternoon to go play golf. Someone who leaves at 4:55 PM even in the midst of a crisis probably won't get a good performance review from me (and he would be wise to check his brake cables frequently).

In my experience, programmers that obsess over their hours and feel as if their mere presence in an Aeron chair is somehow worth money tend to not be the most productive members of the team anyway.

Answer 19

I find it crazy that in 2010 '40 hours' is still the normal assumption of what a work week should be. Weren't we supposed to have robots doing all o four work for us by now?

Having to work over 40 hours a week is usually a sign of bad project management or just plain bad management, so is more of a symptom of something larger that you probably want to run away from anyways.