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1514

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15

I noticed from various SO questions that some shops ban the usage of open source software, like Subversion for example. What are the reasons for doing this?

EDIT: Just to be sure: I'm not asking about linking to open source libraries but the usage of compiled open source tools, like Subversion, Mozilla or OpenOffice. Something which normally shouldn't be affected by license incompatibilities.

+21  A: 

The (government) shop I work at is required to have support contracts for any products that are used.

Open Source isn't banned as a whole, but it is a lot harder to get an Open Source project approved than it is a proprietary product.

R. Bemrose
Many open source projects offer commercial support.
Pascal Thivent
We do use some Open Source software.
R. Bemrose
So open source isn't banned at your shop :)
Pascal Thivent
-1, so what? actually, government shops are more likely to use open source alternatives.
hasen j
I also work at a government site. We do use some OS (Subversion, for one), but we can't upgrade without it being approved by the Change Control Board and security. I've been here over a year and we have not updated SVN in that time.
Theresa
@Pascal Thivent: No, as a whole open source products aren't banned, but it does restrict which ones we use. For instance, we're not allowed to use Apache products, opting instead to use things like Oracle Application Server. Subversion is currently being phased out in favor of Microsoft Team Suite.
R. Bemrose
Having said that, we still use Apache *libraries* in our Java applications.
R. Bemrose
+13  A: 

Lack of knowledge, fear in a lack of support, ...

OS software is as good or better than any commercial software, it's simply following different business lines and some people is not comfortable with them :(

Carlos Tasada
OS software MAY be as good or "better" - whatever that means - than SOME commercial software, but your statement is just dogmatic. Sometimes it may be more appropriate to buy something, sometimes it may be more appropriate to use OS: one size does NOT fit all.
IanH
"Buy" isn't the opposite of open source - closed source is.
Nate
+4  A: 

Definitely lack of customer support. Also, it's harder to blame the tool developer if it crashes, i.e., harder to justify failure.

I share the opinion that it's a wrong line of thinking to ban OS. Sometimes it's by far the best alternative in so many ways.

Emilio M Bumachar
+15  A: 

The GNU licence can give lots of problems, as it is not clear (without expensive legal advice) when a using open source “product” will put all your own source code into the public domain.

It is bad enough for us developers to understand what “linking” etc is – think of the problems a none tactical manager will have. He will lose his job if he gets it wrong, you will get the pain if he always says no to open source.

Hence a blanket ban on Open Source usage is sometimes seen to be less risky.

(I am not saying I agree with the above, but I have had the argument in the past and lost because of the above)

Ian Ringrose
It's about the viral nature of some open source licences and the uncertainty about whether or not dynamic linking to an open source component means your program has to be open source too. BTW if the manager gets it wrong in many cases **everyone** will lose their job from the boss to the cleaner.
MarkJ
In other words, because the managers are dumb.
hasen j
Using open source will never put your code into the public domain -- in the worst case you still retain your copyright, but are required to provide source code (under the same open-source license!) to anyone that you distribute your product to.
Steve S
It's not about *dumb*, hasen. It's about *not being a specialist in both the law and in programming*.
Paul Nathan
@hasen j: is your comment about being *obnoxious*?
Dems
@Steve S: And who in their right mind wants to publish their code like that? How do you enforce the intellectual property rights? Sorry, but even as a techy I would not want such code published publically, people would 'steal' it regardles of copyright and I'd have a very hard time knowing.
Dems
Nobody can force you to release your source code under the GPL. If you are in violation of the GPL, there are various ways to remedy. One way is to stop using the GPL software. Another way is to release your source, but the GPL cannot force you to do that.
Robert Harvey
+32  A: 

Fear of licenses which, under some circumstances, require that the company ship its own source ("viral licenses"). I've worked at several companies where the OSS licenses had to go through the Legal department first, and others where the answer was simply "no way".

John Saunders
+1. For instance: I Am Not A Lawyer but I understand that the legal implications of dynamic linking for popular licences like GPL are not known, because it has not been tested in court in many jurisdictions. Pro-open source lawyers have offered opinions, but they remain merely opinions until tested in court.
MarkJ
Well USING open source software does not mean you have to base your software on it. You don't link to Subversion libraries, you just use it, as you use Mozilla. Or as you use internet, which is actually open source.
freiksenet
Yes, this can be a show-stopper. But this is why there are "weak" copyleft free software licenses (the GNU Lesser General Public License and the Mozilla Public License) and/or non-copyleft free software licenses (X11 license, Apache license and the BSD licenses) which are used by many open source projects.
Pascal Thivent
Why should they be afraid? Most free licenses only require you to leave the portion you used open, and also publish any changes you made to that module as open source. An extreme example would be Darwin and Mac OS X, where one is open source and the other is so closed it redefined closed software. What we did in our Projects: We added a disclaimer, added a link to the license and to the source (which we left as it is). We didn't encounter any problem whatsoever.
Mike
MarkJ, it is often misunderstood, but clearly defined. Dynamic runtime linking to OSS libs in closed-source products is perfectly fine. Static linking or including code is not.See the book "Open Source Licensing" by Lawrence Rosen
dj_segfault
@Mike - the problem is the work of sorting out what each individual license allows you to do. Every license is different and there are a LOT of them out there. Some companies prefer to not deal with the situation entirely and put a blanket ban on incorporating open source code in products.
17 of 26
It's such a "no way" attitude with many lawyers that even in our shop we have TRIED TO GIVE AWAY SOFTWARE to another agency AND the Lawyers SAID NO WAY. Even with the "license" stating you can't come after us for any reason they were still worried about responsibility on our part.This same thought, reversed makes a Lawyer cringe since they can't hold anyone responsible.... :)
klabranche
This argument makes sense for using code, but is absolutely bad policy for using TOOLS. Insanity. – tim
Tim
@dj_segfault: I haven't read that book, but the GPL explicitly forbids non-GPL programs from linking to GPL libraries... it's the primary difference between GPL and LGPL (which allows anyone to dynamically link to them).
R. Bemrose
@Downvoter: what's your deal?
John Saunders
+2  A: 

Certain companies restrict the usage of Open-Source to protect it's intellectual property. This is not just limited to GPL licenses but any open source license. If a company uses a specific open-source product and releases a similar, but not connected product and charges for it... it looks somewhat suspicious.

Malaxeur
Depends on the licence. It wouldn't look suspicious to release a commercial version of a package obtained under a BSD open source licence, because it wouldn't be illegal!
MarkJ
+46  A: 

The purchasing manager doesn't get a free lunch when choosing open source.

kruczkowski
What about a bonus for coming in under-budget?
dj_segfault
He'll just get his budget cut next year. :(
mark4o
Although this sounds like a joke, I believe this answer contains a deeper truth.
DR
+7  A: 

Many companies also like to have someone to sue when things go bang.

It's not great for us techies, but commercial considerations often bear little resemblance to technical ones.

Dems
+12  A: 

Things I have seen:

  1. Lack of paid support.

  2. Uneasyness over licensing. AKA - Is it really free for us?

  3. Might not be free tomorrow. Yes, sounds a little interesting....

  4. Whomever is writing it may not be here tomorrow. There's a sense it's easier to walk away from and the company has no recourse.

  5. Waryness over who's to blaim or where to turn when an issue does arise. Aligned with support but I target this thought at the managers and higher, not the technical people. Although, this can be the case even for technical.

  6. It's a foreign idea / model (how can it be free?) which produces for some a trust issue or at least a lack of understanding that makes them uneasy. Even if it's subconscious.

  7. Lack of a track record. No salesman's pitch, etc... to tell them about all their amazingly happy customers.

  8. Lack of Training.

These are some of the things I have seen that can cause agencies to not consider Open Source as an option.

EDIT: My answer is how I have seen people react in Org's. It Doesn't mean these thoughts are factual or well founded.

EDIT #2:

I think this SO question adds a nice angle for our discussion:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1396191/what-should-every-developer-know-about-legal-matters.

It think this illustrates an example of #2. AKA - Is it really free? Or can I really use it this way or that way. Yes, I know this is in regards to how someone was using something in code but I think it helps illustrate why some companies run away from OS.

klabranche
1) There are plenty with real, paid support.2) How is this different from a closed source?3) How is this different from a closed source changing price?4) OSS community is, by and large, a meritocracy. Reputation is everything. This is even less an issue than with closed source software.6) Sourceforge etc have a complete record of each release, how active the project is, how often it's downloaded, a forum of issues one can browse before using the software. It's true some projects are light on docs.7) Plenty of training for Linux, MySQL, Apache, Eclipse, etc.
dj_segfault
1 - True, but in those cases that wouldn't be an issue for that OS. 2 - Closed Source = Not an issue because free is not in question anymore.3 - It isn't. That's why I stated it sounds interesting. I have had this argument given to me before.4 - "Sense" is not necessarily the truth. Again, I am stating how perception has been involved in a lot of what I have seen.7 - Yes, again I was giving generalized statements. Some OS will not be hampered with these issues.My answer was how I have seen people react in Org's. Doesn't mean these thoughts are factual or well founded. :)
klabranche
3. extjs - it was really cool js framework until it stopped being free. im so glad i did not invest time in getting to know it :)
01
+5  A: 

I hate to say so.. but kruczkowski is right. Plus, executives don't get to publicize all the money they've spent at national and international conferences on things like MySQL, Apache, and Subversion. They love to go spout and tout that "We have Oracle, WebLogic and Perforce!"

I've been working with the above open source technologies and others for years, and they've never let me down. Of course, I read the documentation and learned how to use them before I started using them.

Travis Heseman
+3  A: 

I think you may need to differentiate between using open source tools in house versus including open source libraries in shipping code.

Banning use of open source libraries in shipping code is almost always due to legal/license concerns.

The only reason I can think of for banning use of open source tools internally is for quality/support concerns. I've worked for a lot of places, and I've never seen a ban on using open source tools internally. A lot of places are careful about what you're allowed to install, but I've never seen a complete ban. I just can't imagine some place banning tools such as Notepad++ or Paint.NET.

17 of 26
It is not always clear what is a tool and what is a library, (e.g. gnu-yacc) and how is a none tactical manager meant to know the difference?
Ian Ringrose
This sort of directive does not typically come from the development manager. IT departments are generally the ones who control what applications developers are allowed to use. Legal departments are usually the people that say "don't ship any open source code".
17 of 26
+6  A: 

It depends on how your shop would use the open source software as to the reasons, but I have personally seen the following:

(1) Anyone can modify many types of open source software. That is both a strength and a weakness. It is very possible for someone to insert malicious code into an open source project. Sure, it would probably get caught eventually, but depending on the code it could only take seconds for it to do damage or steal information.

(2) Some people do not like the viral nature of some of the open source licenses (GPL) and don't use open source under these licenses because they don't agree with what they represent.

(3) Many open source projects are only backed by the community and not a company. A company has a vested interest in fixing and developing software products that it sells because they depend on it for revenue. I have seen tons of open source projects lose steam and die. Sure, you could get the source and work on it yourself, but who really wants to do that? Personally, I have plenty of work to do without taking that task on.

(4) If your company produces a commercial product similar to the open source, then it could open them up to allegations of using the open source software in that product in a way the open source license does not allow. Even if they aren't true it would be a huge hassle at best for the company.

Dana Holt
1.) Technically possible in any software, not just open source - who's to say some employee of a closed source company didn't insert a backdoor? And without the code - you can't even check! Plus, not just anyones submitted code can make it into a release, or even a nightly build - most projects (if not all - how could you ever have a successful build otherwise?) use known, limited submitters that are in charge of vetting changes / patches.
Nate
@Nate - I'm just telling you what I have seen, not saying the reasons are valid. Although, I do believe most viral open source licenses are used as an exploitation of developers by companies looking to create complimentary commodity markets for their own financial gain.
Dana Holt
+4  A: 

Its an interesting question, and one I can't think of an easy answer to.

Firstly, lets assume the ban is on OSS tools, not libraries. We all know of the perils of using the GPL if you're not prepared to pay the price laid down in the licence. That's fine, a company can decide to be really cautious if it wants.

So, just considering OSS tools. I had a similar issue at my place of work, the problem is not a total ban but a total mistrust from my boss. I suggested we migrate from VSS (which was significantly letting us down, corrupting data) to Subversion. Immediately my boss decided we had to trial commerical alternatives that he would try to get budget for. He just didn't like the concept of the free software solution, and admitted as such.

Now, I can understand trying to get the "best of breed" solution for our needs, and using something as important as source control means we really need to get it right, but the problem wasn't one of evaluating several suppliers and choosing one, it was 'pick one of the commercial ones'.

I think he was too cautious about it mainly because he doesn't understand it. Free software to him suggests kids in the back bedroom tinkering with software and producing ill-tested, poorly-designed, unsupported toys. (hmm, reminds me of the stuff we sell :) ). So the issue is one of ignorance, and a little mistrust when I came to him to say OSS is good, he dismissed that argument because it came from a techy who didn't explain the issue in good business-speak, ie, I came from a position where I was naturally advocating my preferences, not coming up with an impartial suggestion (that's not the case, but this 'favouritism' position is far too common in the software industry)

In the end, we evaluted a SCM, then found out the total cost (!) and went with subverison after all, and we're all happy with it, and I got an honourable mention in my review due to it.


So, the problem is one of education and ignorance. Just because you and I understand the good, bad and ugly of OSS, doesn't mean the business leaders do. They read the gartner reports and business papers (if they read anything) and get their knowledge of these things from there. Those places are ultimately driven by the software industry which is dependant on selling their own tools and generally undermining OSS.

I have seen articles that paint OSS in a good light, and the message is getting out, so maybe in a few years, OSS will be the first choice for a company (in fact, my other boss said that he thinks all software will be OSS in 10 years time, paid for by support contracts). Until then, its up to us to spread the word and improve the quality of the good stuff.

gbjbaanb
+2  A: 

In my current place of employment, we use a lot of open source tools. In fact, outside of desktop operating systems (Windows or OSX), and Office apps, almost everything I use is open source.

I hate to say it, and was never 100% sure, but in a previous job - where the main organization was buying thousands of copies of some pieces of software - I (and others) had the suspicion that the selection of what software was to be used was influenced by the stock portfolios of those making the selections. Granted, the usual choice was software which had the widest use for its purpose, but there were some cases where the choices were curious. Anyway, to address the point, historically it seems that most FOSS software comes from sources which don't sell stock, so such software wouldn't be considered in places where stock portfolios are influencing the decision makers.

PTBNL
A: 

Some companies need to be evaluated by an external auditor before an acquisition and the presence of open source software modules in their software products usually lowers the value therefore reducing the company potential acquisition value.

Andrei Rinea