What version of Java is realistic to expect on a client/browser?

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What version of Java is realistic to expect on a client/browser?

I'm planning to develop an applet-based application that will be used by "average Jill" non-technical users (classical musicians, to be precise). What version of Java can I realistically expect those users to have installed in their browsers? Is 1.5 safe? I know Microsoft hasn't bundled Java with Windows in years, but do most OEM Windows machines have it? What about Macs?

I realize if I use the standard deployment techniques it can prompt the user to install Java if they don't have it or their version is too old for my code, but I'd still like to have a sense of what features I can realistically code for without most users having to install anything. Thanks,

Edit: one other thing not covered by the earlier question: how common is it for Windows users not to have Java at all in this day and age?

+2 A:

Very difficult to tell. Java 5 has been out for years but may not be universally available.

Java 6 would be even better, it is vastly improved as far as the client experience is concerned.

Fortyrunner 2009-11-30 22:54:24

+1 A:

Java 5. If you target macs (average user), you won't get Java 6.

Stefan Kendall 2009-11-30 22:58:31

Why not Java 6 on the Mac?

Kaleb Brasee 2009-11-30 23:31:27

Because there isn't any. Apple supplies their own versions.

BalusC 2009-11-30 23:33:35

Plenty of Java 6 ón the mac. Tje *default* version, however, is java 5. Use java Web start to be certain what you get.

Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen 2009-12-01 08:20:07

It's nowhere close to full penetration, and only intel-macs get Java 6. This is a huge part of the market.

Stefan Kendall 2009-12-01 15:15:27

+1 A:

Definitely Java 5 or higher. JDK 1.4 went out of support in Oct 2008, over thirteen months ago.

duffymo 2009-11-30 23:27:22

official support != reflection of the actual user base.

Stefan Kendall 2009-12-01 15:16:06

True, but it's more of an indicator than nothing. And there's nothing to prevent someone with an out of date JRE from downloading an upgrade. I think it's perfectly reasonable.

duffymo 2009-12-01 23:58:14

Except that you can't upgrade on the macs I mentioned.

Stefan Kendall 2009-12-08 01:55:50

I think that it's fairly unreasonable to suspect that anyone who doesn't develop in Java to have it installed. I have it installed on two of the six computers I use regularly, and even then I plan to uninstall it from both once I finish working on the small side project that I started recently. My parents don't have it installed on their computers, and they'll install anything and everything they can find on the internet. The only site I've visited in years that has even had a Java applet on it is Facebook.

Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome don't come with Java. Nothing on the web uses Java. I don't expect any recent computer to have it anymore, though if you can gather stats on the actual visitors of your site, you'll be better off.

Morbo 2009-11-30 23:32:12

Fair enough, but isn't it true that those browsers don't come with, say, Flash either? People install it when the need arises, no? I mean unless their OEM installs it, which is more of what I was going for.

Dan 2009-12-04 05:16:16

When there's a website above (riastats) showing 72% of people from a sample of 13 million browsers had Java installed there is little value in a sample of a guy and his parent's computers. It just goes to show how easy anecdotal evidence can draw incorrect conclusions.

Pool 2009-12-06 04:36:30

The point is not that the evidence shows that a majority of people don't have Java, or even really that it's "evidence" at all. It means that you CAN'T depend on some random user having Java at all. 72% is an incredibly low chance to "depend" on anything! 72% tells you that *some* of the users who are coming to your site aren't going to have to install a plugin, but more than a quarter would—and almost certainly aren't going to. Plenty of people like the might-as-well-be-fictional people in my post are going to not be able to use whatever product or service you're offering. You need 95%.

Morbo 2009-12-07 19:01:00

Oooh, that's a lot of presumptions. "Almost certainly aren't" going to install completely depends on the app and target audience. 95% is an arbitrary amount and again depends on the app and target audience. No one has talked about having to "depend" on anything but 72% may be much greater than possible alternatives.

Pool 2009-12-07 20:44:11

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What version of Java is realistic to expect on a client/browser?

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