I downloaded Squeak, the Image file, and the Sources file, but I can't figure out how to write Smalltalk code. Is there something obvious I'm missing? Is Squeak even the right IDE for serious Smalltalk development?
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Hopefully, this will help you: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/377
This as well: http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/smalltalk1.html
pookleblinky
2008-10-11 23:06:47
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These videos are a nice simple introduction to Squeak especially this one.
James Fassett
2008-10-11 23:17:00
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I don't think Squeak is really oriented towards "serious Smalltalk development". It's intended as a first programming environment for children. Which isn't to say that you can't do useful stuff with it, it's just not aimed as much towards large-scale development.
Check out the Wiki for getting started tips. It's been a while since I last used Squeak, but I don't remember it being particularly hard to get started.
Mark Bessey
2008-10-11 23:17:23
This is completely wrong.
Marcin
2008-10-11 23:25:52
Sébastien RoccaSerra
2008-10-12 12:07:11
I would refer anybody interested to this paper, which describes the design goals of Squeak: http://users.ipa.net/~dwighth/squeak/oopsla_squeak.htmlNote that building large software systems, support for a native look ad feel, and easy deployment aren't on there anywhere.
Mark Bessey
2008-10-14 16:54:07
And, yeah - saying it's "for children" was probably a bit of a stretch, though that's always been one of Alan Kay's design goals. The major point of squeak is extensibility and portability. While you *can* do anything with it, it's not designed as a professional tool.
Mark Bessey
2008-10-14 16:57:55
While it might not be designed as a professional tool, it is much better than lets say Eclipse or Visual Studio at it.
Stephan Eggermont
2008-11-27 22:30:35
"It's intended as a first programming environment for children" - it's totally sad that this is the impression many people are getting. Though I can see why.
nachik
2009-02-04 15:53:00
What's the screenshot on the front page of the Squeak wiki? http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/uploads/683/squeak34-1600x1200.1.png
Mark Bessey
2009-02-07 06:48:43
Squeak has always looked like it was made by the same guys who design Fisher Price toys. Yes, it's powerful. But it looks like a joke, to business developers. Looks can be deceiving. But also, they let you know that a lot of people who use and build squeak don't care if it "looks professional", because they have very non-business (is that what you mean by 'serious'?) use-scenarios. Check out the Pharo Smalltalk VM which is based on squeak, but with the bedazzler bits left out.
Warren P
2010-04-21 13:29:04
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Squeak is a great environment for learning Smalltalk, but don't confuse that particular implementation with 'Smalltalk'. Some of the other implementations are very professional, but not surprisingly come at a financial cost.
Travis
2008-10-11 23:24:33
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Squeak is an excellent IDE for serious Smalltalk development. That is not to say that it cannot be improved. The pharo guys are eleminating from the squeak image the parts you might not want for professional development.
Download (or buy) the book Squeak by Example to get started.
Stephan Eggermont
2008-11-12 13:37:04
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Get yourself a copy of Squeak by Example.
Either as a free PDF or as a book.
Adrian
2008-11-16 17:06:43
A:
Squeak is nice to learn the language and to see how creative a system like it can make people, which has two aspects: you see many interesting ideas and new concepts tried, but also a lot of junk and bad looking (some even abandoned) experiments.
I admit that, for a beginner, it may be hard to see the big picture, or if there is any at all. An example is the use of multiple GUI schemes (MVC vs. Morphic): at a time, where the mainstream is junping on MVC (they just understood in Java, what the ST guys talked about 20 yrs ago, and so they went from callbacks and AW to Swing), the Squeak guys are fed with MVC and move on, trying other aproaches. There is also a lack of "professional look" in squeak. And a chaotic community, some of which are quite ego-driven individuals.
It can be argued, if Squeak alltogether is good or bad for Smalltalk's reputation, as it certainly pisses of all those who want to write "conservative" windows apps, with menubars, icons, toolbars etc. Also performance used to be a problem (but since ELiot is working on the VM, is getting better...)
On the other side, there are wonderful applications, which are almost impossible in other environments: look at croquet (having a browser on the wall, with fishes swimming around), Etoys, Scratch, nice Seaside apps etc. And also almost all things which are now considered mainstream have originated from the Smalltalk and the Squeak community. And these guys are moving on...
So please take a look at the other Smalltalk's too: there are at least GNU-ST, Visualworks and Smalltalk/X. The later two are more biased towards blassical business apps, and the language and base libraries are almost the same. VW is not free, for commercial work, though.
blabla999
2010-08-26 07:02:33