Another "is ASP.NET MVC right for me?" question

Question

Here's my particular situation...

I have a decent amount of experience with webforms, and I must say, a lot of it has been pretty frustrating. I like that there are lots of built-in controls, but then I discover that they don't quite do what I want, out of the box. I end up rolling my own controls (that inherit from the built-in controls), such as GridViewThatCanSortItself or GridViewThatHasASelectionColumn (these may not have been the actual names, but you get the idea). I've often wondered, while struggling mightily to build such classes, whether figuring out the often convoluted event model was worth it. My attempts to use css to style things have been frustrating as well. There are some ASP.NET controls that will result in one html tag for one set of attributes and a different tag with another set of attributes. You don't realize this until you notice your css only works half the time.

So, my brain starts to wonder, could ASP.NET MVC be the answer? Reading some of the posts on SO has basically given me the impression that, while webforms definitely has its issues, I'd only be trading one set of problems for another. It even seems like Microsoft is trying to talk me out of it:

Quote from the asp.net site (http://www.asp.net/learn/mvc/tutorial-01-cs.aspx)

ASP.NET MVC...works well for Web applications that are supported by large teams of developers and Web designers who need a high degree of control over the application behavior.

That is really not me. Most of my projects are relatively small, and I'm usually the only programmer. I sometimes need to create very custom or unusual UI's, but I definitely don't have a team of programmers who can build components for me.

There is also the issue of javascript. I have a definite working knowledge of html and css, but I can't say the same for javascript. As clumsy and bloated as they are, I've been able to do some smooth enough looking things with UpdatePanels. I'm not sure how much time I'd need to spend just learning the javascript to be able to handle even simple AJAX scenarios in ASP.NET MVC.

I'm about to start working on a relatively simple and small web app, so now would be the time to take the plunge if I'm going to take the plunge. This app will use a SQL Server Express (2005 or 2008) back-end, and I'm thinking of also trying out SqlMetal as an ORM solution. So, that's already one thing I'm going to have to learn, although I at least have experience with--and really like--LinqToXml and LinqToObject. The pages of the web app will have some data grids (some with link columns), input boxes, labels, drop-down lists, check boxes, radio buttons, and submit/action buttons. I don't foresee anything more complicated than that. There will be about six or seven pages total.

Questions:

Given my experience, how painful will it be to learn ASP.NET MVC? Will it be worth it?

I've read some earlier questions comparing webforms to MVC, so I'm curious, How has MVC evolved over the past year or so? Is there anything new that would make the learning curve less steep?

Do I literally have to write code to generate all html by hand or are there code/libraries readily available in the community to assist with the process? (I know I read something about "html helpers"--that may be what I'm asking about here.)

Any other advice?

Update

Another question that occurred to me: Is the transition from ASP.NET webforms to MVC anything like going from standard WPF (using code-behind) to MVVM? I found learning WPF itself to be pretty challenging (and I still couldn't say I really get everything about it), but learning to work with WPF using the MVVM pattern was a relatively painless transition. So, I'm wondering how similar a jump it is to go from webforms to ASP.NET MVC.

Answer 1

My advice is to work through the Nerd Dinner Tutorial from the first chapter of Professional ASP.NET MVC (and then buy the whole book, it's great) to get a feel for how it fits together and how it works for you. This covers most of what you are concerned about above.

You will have to get your hands dirty with regards working with raw HTML but this is no way near as terrifying as it may sound. Especially as you're having issues where Web Forms takes control.

Answer 2

@DanThMan, I had the same reservations you did when I first took a look at the framework but having worked with it now for some time there is no way, given the choice, that you'd get me back into WebForms.

I also write, from time to time, small applications where I am the only developer and I thank God I stuck to the MVC framework and took the time to really learn it.

In my mind it has made programming fun again and I can now maintain sites quickly and easily which is a first.

For my money this is the way to go but it's a steep learning curve and you need time to get to really understand it. If you have the time I'd say go for it.

Answer 3

Yes, Asp.Net Mvc might be a solution for your problems.

I would highly recommend you not to rush
(without better knowledge you will end up at disappointment).

But in either way - it definitely be worth it. You will learn a lot.

Start with bunch of sample applications while reading some books (start with Sanderson`s, continue with Mvc In Action). Familiarize yourself with asp.net mvc. It demands different way of thinking about web development you are likely used to. And don't be afraid of 3rd party tools - get used to them because asp.net mvc does not focus on 'ready 2 drop through designer and use' solutions and lack of super cool and shiny (with awful js/html underneath) controls at start really frightens.

After few weeks of playing around with it - you will actually be able to answer this question yourself.
And that's the one and only answer that's worth something.

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Personally - i prefer asp.net mvc framework and don't want to go back despite that in some cases it does take more work (i.e. - implementation of custom pagination (which can be easily made way more sophisticated than one that pagination control provides)).

Framework demands better knowledge of OOP, architecture and design knowledge, good sense of code tidiness because there is much less 'signs' that provide direction of one and correct way of doing things - they must be figured out in most cases by yourself. So - it is easier to drown in your own sh*t, html tag soup etc. if you are unsure and/or don't know what you are doing.

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I kind a disagree with that statement about large developer team. This is where knowledge about OOP, 'convention over configuration' and extensability of Mvc framework comes into play. As i see it - it's way more easier (this is really really subjective) to write code that's reusable. And with features like templates (in mvc version no2) count of code lines is reduced drastically.

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And learn javascript. You are missing a lot. Play around with jQuery if you haven't done that yet (greatly reduces cross-browser compability problems). Firebug plugin for FireFox is a great aid at this (for debugging purposes). AJAX`ifying your mvc website might seem awkward at first (there's a great tips in 'Mvc in action' book about this topic like form hijacking that can be used to achieve so called progressive enchancement with AJAX), but once you get used to JS - it feels superb. One thing to mention - JS is quite sharp tool (if you don't drop what you know about development in .NET environment and don't use it as it's supposed to). It's easy to screw up JS code base in no time.

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Another thing - there's a bunch of myths about mvc framework along those who have touched only web forms.

It is not hard to work with raw html.
It is not hard to read form values (binding mechanism is excellent and easily customizable/extensible).
I'm sure there are more. Just can't remember at the moment. :)

Answer 4

Given my experience, how painful will it be to learn ASP.NET MVC? Will it be worth it?

Yes and yes. It will be painful and it will be worth it and here's why. You will be a better programmer for it and your skills will more easily transfer to other platforms. MVC is a very common pattern that you will find over and over again in just about every popular language.

You will be working more closely with html, javascript, and css, but that's web programming and you're better off biting the bullet sooner than later.

Answer 5

Some developers seem to have an aversion to component-oriented programming. For others, it feels natural. If you find yourself constantly fighting the standard components, then it's easy enough to roll your own from scratch--which you would basically end up doing in MVC anyway. If you find yourself fighting the unit test model with web forms, you will find things easier with MVC.

However, MVC isn't a cure-all; there's a lot to learn. Some apps will be less complex than with web forms, and some will be much more complex.

I've found that web forms don't really gel with many developers until they deeply understand the page life cycle and use of ViewState. Until that point, there seems to be a lot of trial and error -- but it's easier to learn that than MVC with IOC, etc. As far as customizing output, it's often easier to use control adapters than to subclass the control. In case it helps, I walk through these issues from the web forms side in my book: Ultra-Fast ASP.NET.

In the end, I think it's partly a mindset thing, and which model fits the way you solve problems and think about your application better.

Answer 6

having worked my last few projects (prior to embracing mvc) using my own controls being rolled via the HtmlTextWriter, I actually found th transition quite straightfwd. i have to say tho', i did put it off until v1.0 was well and truly 'out there' and only made strides from aug/sept 09. i'm glad i got into it as the main reasons i had been using the HtmlTextWriter in webforms was to overcome some of the basic issues of class names and id's when using jquery. i'm not going to say that v1 is a silver bullet but it certainly just works in tandem with my mindset at the moment. as for literature, i too read the sanserson and nerd dinner books and took plenty away from them. at the same time, i also got into subsonic v3 and found a fair amount of tips on rob's site to get me going.

i seriously can't imagine having to go 'back' to the webforms paradigm as i had been looking for a way to drop the page lifecycle and controls bloat for such a long time (i had even looked at php framewirks at one point as a way out of the webforms dilema - kohana is a great little php framework).

anyway, just my scottish 2 pence worth...

merry xmas all and a happy 2010

jimi

Answer 7

There's some good answers here and some good ones in other threads as well. I'll take a stab at a question that hasn't really been addressed yet.

How has MVC evolved over the past year or so? Is there anything new that would make the learning curve less steep?

I made a conscious switch to MVC about 8 months ago and haven't looked back. Version 1 was stable and I began to use it on a couple of sites with the help of a couple of books and the internet of course. Resources were good back then but since I switched things have really blown up in a good way.

There are a couple of books out there for version 1 that are top notch (Steve Sanderson's - Pro ASP.NET MVC Framework and the Nerd Dinner book come to mind). And there is definitely asp.net MVC blood in the water so I imagine there will be some great version 2 books down the line.

The developer community, especially here, is excellent and it's getting better. "asp.net-mvc" is currently the 16th most used tag on this site and often has a very high amount of views per question. As of today I have yet to have a question that hasn't been answered. There's a lot of smart people looking at the MVC questions who are willing to help.

The contrib library over at codeplex is also getting better and getting some nice participation. They've done a great job of filling in some holes that version 1 has left. I can only think that this will continue to get stronger as MVC gets older.

The new features for version 2 are in my opinion awesome. I won't name my favorites as they won't mean much to you if you haven't played with MVC much but just know that the development team has listened and included a number of great enhancements for the new version. They are very actively seeking feedback and always looking for improvements. Do not expect this change anytime soon. (One day I called up Microsoft and said "Shorten '[AcceptVerb(Http.Post)]' to '[HttpPost]'" and bam, Mvc 2 was my idea.)

The point I'm trying to make is: since I made the switch I've seen things get better and better. I'm incredibly happy with my decision and I'm excited for the future of this project. Version 1 is good, Version 2 is better and I can't wait to see what 3, 4, and 5 ... hold.

And I'll leave you with this: I've now converted a number of friends from WebForms to MVC. Every single one of the them is glad they made the switch and the ones that work with all aspects of an application (C# code, html, css, javascript, data access, unit testing, etc) will never go back and are loving the asp.net MVC life.