5 years experience == 100k+ salary? Really?

Question

There are ads like that all over the place on different online job boards for software developers. My question is: is that really a realistic goal for most developers? Are recruiters just flat out lying, or does a typical programmer (i.e. non-rockstar) really command that much in today's job market?

Assuming 5% increase every year for fiver years, one would have to have a starting salary of $78,353 in order to reach six figures!! I know MIT CS grads fresh out can go to Oracle, Google and such for $80k (but then san jose living cost is mad expensive), BUT (and this is my question), do they get $100k after 5 years? If so, would they be demanding $128k after 10 years?

My follow up question for the old-timers: was it like that in the 90s (or even 80s), where one could expect a salary almost twice the national median after only 5 years? Or is this yet another lingering consequence of the dot-com bubble?

Answer 1

Are there benefits included? Those can add up if you have to pay them all out of pocket.

I think it depends on the location and the type of programming you do.

Answer 2

It depends on the market, the company and the actual domain expertise.

In a larger center, with high cost of living (California, NYC) you might get something like that. In smaller markets (midwest, Oregon, NC) I would doubt it.

Jack Ganssle has published a survey of embedded engineer salary. It's a bit dated at 2006, bit will give you some ideas.

Payscale looks like it might be a good source of data also.

I would also question you assumption of an annual 5% increase. That is not a given. Totally dependent on how well the company does, size of the workforce, etc... Much more likely to see a significant pay increase due to a promotion/technical level bump.

I believe FogCreek hires their employees with a very high salary, but let's face it...They are rockstars (and it's in New York).

Answer 3

I guess it all depends on what you do during those five years. ;)

Answer 4

I haven't heard of anything like that going on in my area. I don't suspect there are many in the six figures at my workplace.

Answer 5

Hah! With 20 years experience in software development, i'm still making relatively piddly for the industry. My personal pitfalls were: working tiny start-ups with minimal cash flow or capital, working for non-profits, working in the academic world, and returning to grad school at one point. Along the way it has been all lone-cowboy coding, little contact with the big-time team-oriented software engineering way of doing things, which limits future possibilities.

No, i wouldn't take a job at $80k to $100k if it mean living in silicon valley. Been there, didn't like it. Where you live and what your contribution is to knowledge and mankind's well-being matters more than money, assuming the money is at least adequate. Though $100K could sure help move forward a lot of worthwhile projects and support nonprofit activities of interest to me.

Answer 6

I just got a six figure income, but I worked hard for it, and it was over 30 years. I'm not certain about people that's been in the market for only 5 years. I suppose it would depend on the area. Before this time, i was in the high $80k's working contract positions for larger companies like Ford Motor company.

Answer 7

100k seems a bit high for 5 years. But I'll be near 60-70k with 4 years of experience. But I work on contrats intead of being employed so the salary is higher, but I have no benefit.

That's pretty nice for the short term. But on the long run, i'll be employed again to have better benefits.

Answer 8

Switching positions nets a far higher merit increase than sticking at the same place. Measuring average merit increase at the same place for 5 years isn't going to get you real-world information, I don't think.

That said, depending on your local market and what you do in that 5 years, I would say that 100k+ is definitely attainable with 5 years of experience.

Answer 9

In my area, 5 years programming experience seems to be in the ballpark of $55,000.

Answer 10

I think it depends very much on (a) where you are and (b) what you spent five years doing.

If you're in New York or Silicon Valley, that's not an unreasonable salary, provided you spent your five years doing more than writing web pages or Windows UIs over databases. If you have some specialized skills that an employer needs, it could well push you over the six-figure mark.

Also, if you're a consultant, you'll get over US$100k fairly quickly, but end up paying all sorts of things out of pocket that an employee wouldn't.

Answer 11

For a really good programmer with particular talents and experience, absolutely.

Probably a bit expensive for light programming that anybody could do. But in a specialty industry where the candidate needs to both be a good programmer and have lots of domain knowledge, it's totally reasonable.

Answer 12

I came from a big computer science school and it is definitely possible to make 100K+ in 5 years. I work for a big company and I think most people will make it to 100K. In fact, I believe most of my peers came in after college at ~75K.

I think what most of my peers are thinking is whether they will ever get out of the 125K range. I think making the leap to 200K+ at any point in one's career is hard. Getting up to a mid-level tier in a company isn't too difficult. It's getting into the upper echelon where the real $$ and bonuses are waiting is the tough part.

Answer 13

Compared to the 1980s and early 1990s, it looks a lot harder to make a good income or find interesting and worthwhile work. Back then, any electronics nerd who could make an LED blink by entering hex codes into a microprocessor was considered a genius, and got hired to do any kind of software work.

Now almost all the good work requires layers and layers of know-how about databases, web apps, Java and all its peripheral technologies, etc, and employers are looking for more experience with tools and skills using them. (Or buzzword matching but that another topic...) A generic "smart guy" wont' get far. Today, pick a specialty and dive in and learn something about the foundations, related specialties and forget the big picture.

Answer 14

I think there are a few points you are leaving out here:

1) If someone hops from company to company they may get much more than a 5% increase each year as it can be that someone goes from $30K here to $50K there.

2) Some types of programmers will usually command more than others. SAP or Oracle developers may well be able to ask for more because they have had thousands of dollars worth of training to get at the stage they are. Before I forget, there are also those legacy programmers that write code for mainframes or other systems that I don't think most schools would teach about and thus few people have that qualification, e.g. COBOL seems to be an example here.

3) In the late 90s I remember getting a string of raises within a year that took my salary from about $32,500 to $44,000 or so which is where you can get those boosts at times. Even now, I would imagine if you can find that place where a typical programmer in X is rare, they may be able to ask for more money.

Last but not least, let us not forget that sometimes people take jobs for the big $$$ and then get the big headaches.

Answer 15

In New York, even hot dog vendors make $100k/year on the street.

Answer 16

I'd say its high but do-able. It depends where you went during your career, if you worked at a dotCom type company then they tend to pay well, though job security can be.. tenuous.

Even then, you'd have be at least "bassplayer" quality to get that salary, if you're just at "groupie" standard then they won't accept you, if they really are paying that much.

So I'd say lingering dotCom. Wait until next year and see if anyone's still paying those wages!

(ps. it took me 6 years to get to £50k, but I did luck into a dotCom style company, and after being made redundant, have roughly stayed on that salary at my new company with only inflation-level payrises).

I do find that the biggest a..elickers get the big salaries, and end up working as project managers, consultants and the like, and they're generally the most useless b.gg.rs I've ever had the misfortune to work with. so be happy working and getting satisfaction from your job instead of worrying over how much you earn.

Answer 17

If you have regular increases of 5%, that compounds fairly fast. Don't forget taxes though, that tends to really start to hurt as you get up there in the tax bracket.

Answer 18

I interviewed a guy for a position we have open and he had exactly 5 years of experience and wanted $120K/year. I have 15 years and don't make that. Needless to say, I told him good luck with that.

I know there are consulting gigs that will pay that, but still... that's pretty ballsy for a guy with only 5 years of experience.

Answer 19

Location is everything like people have hinted at. I can tell you that I went from 60 (Michigan) to 77 then to 85 all within a year just because I moved to Chicago. Had I stayed in Chicago and looked for a new job I would have no doubt I could have made 100k with benefits. (Would have been with 6 years experience, so one year off) Unfortunately I had to come back to Michigan and dropped back down to 77k. Nothing special about me either, just decent references and .net background.

Other thing you have to be aware of is that sometimes the number per year is based on no benefits. There are a million .net developer jobs in Chicago paying 50 an hour or more for 5 years experience but a lot of them mean no benefits.(IE Time off, health, etc.) But in my case, all were with. So yes, I would say it's possible. Probably not in Michigan though.

Answer 20

Don't forget: location, location, location. $78K in Cincinnati is a pretty good salary. Good enough that you might be hard pressed to get that for an entry-level position. In Silicon Valley or Manhattan, you might be able to afford a down payment on a cardboard box in the street with that. Companies in those areas will have to offer considerably more to be competitive. So it's hard to evaluate your question out of context.

Answer 21

I frankly think that depends on what you aim for in your career. There are some very specialized industries (like, financial companies, marketing / game) where you can speed up your income (and in 5 years you get to learn quite a bit from these fields making you a special employee).

Answer 22

I believe that salary is a personal metric and is not of use to anyone else. I make as much as I do because that is what I was willing to take that for the job. Someone else would have taken less, other's would not do it for unless it was for substantially more.

It works the opposite way for employers. They might hire you for $100k but they might only hire me for $80k. They are going to offer what they think they can get away with. I am going to accept what I believe is fair, and you will do the same.

The other issue with what you are asking is usually it is not five years of experience that gets you $100k, but five years of experience in X, with a specialization in Y, and a great deal of knowledge in Z.

Answer 23

Five years of web development won't get $100k at very many places. Five years of kernel hacking in Linux will. It's all about what and where.

I hit six figures within four years of starting my career. After that my pay went up and down, depending on where I was working and what I was doing.

Answer 24

In Silicon Valley, it doesn't even take that long to get to $100k/year. Starting base salaries for serious computer science people fresh out of college are around $80k and, including benefits, don't be surprised if you start reporting six figures on your income tax return within a year or two.

Answer 25

In Pittsburgh .Net is hot. Someone with 3-4 years and the skills to back it up could probably walk in @ 80k pretty easily. I know guys with under 10 years that are well over 100k.

Answer 26

The answer is that it requires a little bit more than software development experience.

Security clearances and having client facing attributes normally make the difference between an 85k guy and a 140-150k guy. Without some differentiators, you end up competing against H-1B visa/green cards that can really depress the amount you can make.

Making beyond those numbers, as a primarily software guy, usually takes requires that you have the extras and being in the right spot at the right time (luck + networking).

Answer 27

As many have said, it depends on location primarily, but also depends on the technology and the company. I'm guessing that Java and .Net are in higher demand than BASIC. Also, different companies value skill sets differently. My previous company had all sorts of jokers with "senior" title and my current company doesn't consider anyone but true senior-level developers and hires them as mid-level people. So pay is also impacted by such labels.

Around Philadelphia area, a senior-level .Net developer with 5-10 years experience would probably average about 100k.

Answer 28

I can tell you from my recent interview experience that you can get $100k with less than 5 years experience. I was told up front that the particular position I was interviewing for would net from $80-110k. I had maybe 1 year of full-time, salaried work experience but the job was in California. On the flip side, I was offered a full $10k lower than the position I had at the time to do essentially the same work, but in my home town. Cost is relative, as is benefit. Personally, I settled for a new position in the city at the same salary I was making and haven't looked back. The killer? The benefits and career development.

Don't underestimate the value of career development. That stuff will get you far more than $100k, and much, much faster than brute force job jumping. I would know, I started at minimum wage in college doing work that far overshadows what I do now, but at least the pay is a bit better now! :)

Answer 29

No - 5 years gets you about $60K on Planet Earth. 12+ years will get you to the $100K range.

We are talking about US Dollars here, right?

Answer 30

You have to know what you want in your career and in your life, then make it balance. Sometimes you have to take chances. In my market I was getting under paid by a significant percentage. Being inexperienced I thought I just had to do my time. Finally I tested the waters and put my resume out. Got an offer that was a 33% increase. I was still enjoying where I worked so I gave them the chance to keep me. They actually gave me just under that at 32%.

One year later the company I was in had been taking a lot of negative turns (outsourcing, layoffs, tighter benefits) so I checked around. Then I found an offer that got me about a 22% increase (without moving). So in 3 years time (with about 1.5 years freelance web development prior to that) I was able to bump my salary by around 50%. That might have been different if the company I was with had started me higher to begin with.

All that to say that even if you are in a lower paying market by comparison (I'm in the Midwest) you can still improve your salary just by being good at what you do and not being afraid to do what it takes to take care of yourself (I left my previous company in good standing and still have relationships with most of my ex-co-workers).

Answer 31

Don't make me cry; I'm in NYC with 9 years of experience. I don't make quite the starting salary you quoted. I actually did make 5K more at one point.

Answer 32

I think it depends. When I graduated in 2002 it was hard to find a job. They were paying 30,000 to start in New York City (not really enough to live on). Ultimately I found a job but the salary was not great (a function of the economy). And since previous jobs base your salary on your last job that takes you down. I started well below 50,000 at a start up. In 3 years my salary got up to the 50,000 level. The next job was a huge pay increase to the 70,000 level. But I was still well below. Now after 5 years of work I am still below the 100,000 mark.

My friend graduated in 2005. Her first job offer was 75,000. She then changed companies after a year (and she was fired) and her next offer was at the 90,000 level. She was also working in New York City (financial companies). So it seemed that both the economy and location seemed to matter. She had a better economy, was in the city, and working in finance and boom big money. I am working in northern new jersey (not in a big city) and I started when the economy was pretty bad early 2003 and so I got less.

Now the economy is going to be bad again. So it is possible that 100,000 in 5 years is harder to do. So I'd say it depends on a lot (your personal network at finding jobs, the economy, where you are working, and what you are doing). Also some companies promote quicker than others. In a small startup you may find yourself the same position even after 10 years (assuming success). In a fortune 500 company you may find yourself promoted rather quickly, especially as people leave and find yourself some type of technical director. Then if you jump ship you may be able to use your new title and recent promotion to get a much higher salary.

Answer 33

5% per annum when you're starting in a career is pretty pitiful. As things stand, it's barely going to cover inflation, so 75K to 100K in 5 years is effectively going sideways.

Try reworking the calculation with a 15-20% annual increase.

Answer 34

I think it totally depends on the area. If you make $100,000 in San Diego, it's only equivalent to $65,000 in Pittsburgh, PA based on cost of living.

Answer 35

Check out Glassdoor.com for some real-world numbers. I do think it is attainable, but you'll definitely need to work hard to get there. Nothing in life is easy.

Answer 36

I currently have just over 5 years of experience and make slightly over $100K as a developer. Primarily, I work on modeling and simulation problems using a variety of technologies (C, C#, Java, Python, MATLAB).

Some additional considerations...
1) I live in L.A.
2) I have an advanced degree (in mathematics).
3) I have a high-level security clearance.
4) I have task leadership/management attributes and experience.

So yes, it's doable...

Answer 37

I have about 5.5 years experience (including a 1 year co-op). Los Angeles. Started with Java/J2EE Struts WebSphere Web Applications (somewhat specialized, but not really these days) at $45K for a major defense/aerospace company. Left making ~$50K after about 3 years. Bumped to $76K at a large media company. Got into middlware/business integration SOA. Just got an offer for $100K from a top financial firm, with another from a major film company coming soon. I am trying to negotiate $110-120K for a business integration developer position, fairly standard in that area, although the economy is very bad right now. You have to specialize. SOA is getting big - I highly recommend it as a career path. I worked with contractors billing $75-$300 hour doing business integration, similar to what I do, so I feel underpaid.

Bottom line? Network, specialize, master your craft, communicate effectively, and jump every now and then if you're full-time, and do contracting if you want to make some big bux. I don't think my situation is that unique, but I can tell you I very well could be stuck at making $60-70K right now at the defense/aerospace company if I hadn't followed some of my colleagues out to other opportunities.

Answer 38

I make over that with < 2 yrs under my belt (manhattan contracter fwiw)

Answer 39

I live in the mid-west and I would say that 5 years will get you around $80k here. However, I've been looking around and I've seen postings for senior developers for as little as $60k. I don't think that is typical for my area, this is just because of the economy now and companies know that they can pay people way less and still find qualified candidates. I was making $110k 2 years ago as a consultant. That's because I was hourly and worked a lot of extra hours and did a lot of side work also. Now I'm full time and I'm in the low 90s with better benefits. Not bad, but considering that I'm at the same company where I was a consultant, that's a $20k drop in salary for doing the same work. And I've been here for 9 years now (time to move on...)

All the previous responses are true, it depends on where you live and what your experiences are, but I believe that the only way to really make through the $100k barrier in this industry and stay there is by owning your own business or moving up to management.

Answer 40

Texas here - I've been in IT for about 4.5 years and I'm just about to hit 100K mark. It is definitely attainable, especially with promotions. I know for a fact I will surpass 100K before 6 years but I think there is a ceiling around 130K...Unless you are a super coder and hoarder of key business knowledge... or unless you are in mgmt.

Answer 41

SIGH. It all depends on a mix of 3 basic things

what specific industry, what skillsets, what domain knowledge

In an engineering industry company, don't expect that you will get pay what the financial firms will pay you. I know that with MS in Engineering and doing programming for engineering firms will be minimum 60k to 75k with 2 to 5 years experience. 5 years for 100k is too much for engineering firms.

For financial industry, the pay is better. Now in the financial industry, there are specific sectors which also dictates how much you make. Front, mid or back office. Front will make loads more than back office. If you also know C++, threading, front-office, low-latency, building trading systems, have financial knowledge, 100k in just 3 years is very attainable. I know some earn 300K BASE salary for a hedge fund developing software and trading strategies.

I don't think any company in any industry than the financial hedge fund firms will pay about 300k BASE for a developer. Thus, it depends on the industry/company, your skills and domain knowledge.