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5662

answers:

7

Hello,

just want to know what are the main differences among them? and the power of each language (where it's better to use it).

Edit: it's not "vs." like topic, just information.

+9  A: 

I wouldn't call sed a fully-fledged programming language, it is a stream editor with language constructs aimed at editing text files programmatically.

Awk is a little more of a general purpose language but it is still best suited for text processing.

Perl and Python are fully fledged, general purpose programming languages. Perl has its roots in text processing and has a number of awk-like constructs (there is even an awk-to-perl script floating around on the net). There are many differences between Perl and Python, your best bet is probably to read the summaries of both languages on something like Wikipedia to get a good grasp on what they are.

Robert Gamble
I've seen a sed implementation of Sokoban, which would imply Turing Completeness. However, that can also be said of sendmail.cf and TeX.
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
I worked with a guy once who wrote PostScript to turn a laser printer into a router.
Sam Kington
@Sam: Wow! I didn't know a printer's laser could be cranked up enough to cut wood! Oh, sorry, wrong kind of router.
Dennis Williamson
+72  A: 

In order of appearance, the languages are sed, awk, perl, python.

The sed program is a stream editor, and is designed to apply the actions from a script to each line (or, more generally, to specified ranges of lines) of the input file or files. Its language is based on ed, the Unix editor, and although it has conditionals and so on, it is hard to work with for complex tasks. You can work minor miracles with it - but at a cost to the hair on your head. However, it is probably the fastest of the programs when attempting tasks within its remit. (It has the least powerful regular expressions of the programs discussed - adequate for many purposes, but certainly not PCRE - Perl-Compatible Regular Expressions)

The awk program (name from the initials of its authors - Aho, Weinberger and Kernighan) is a tool originally for formatting reports. It can be used as a souped up sed; in its more recent versions, it is computationally complete. It uses an interesting idea - the program is based on 'patterns matched' and 'actions taken when the pattern matches'. The patterns are fairly powerful (Extended Regular Expressions). The language for the actions is similar to C. One of the key features of awk is that it splits the input lines into fields automatically.

Perl was written in part as an awk-killer and sed-killer. Two of the programs provided with it are a2p and s2p for converting awk scripts and sed scripts into Perl. Perl is one of the earliest of the next generation of scripting languages (Tcl/Tk can probably claim primacy). It has powerful integrated regular expression handling with a vastly more powerful language. It provides access to almost all system calls, and has the extensibility of the CPAN modules. (Neither awk nor sed is extensible.) One of Perl's mottos is "TMTOWTDI - There's more than one way to do it" (pronounced "tim-toady"). Perl has 'objects', but it is more of an add-on than a fundamental part of the language.

Python was written last, and probably in part as a reaction to Perl. It has some interesting syntactic ideas (indenting to indicate levels - no braces or equivalents). It is more fundamentally object-oriented than Perl; it is just as extensible as Perl.

OK - when to use each?

  • sed - when you need to do simple text transforms on files.
  • awk - when you only need simple formatting and summarization or transformation of data.
  • perl - for almost any task, but especially when the task needs complex regular expressions.
  • python - for the same tasks that you could use Perl for.

I'm not aware of anything that Perl can do that Python can't, nor vice versa. The choice between the two would depend on other factors. I learned Perl before there was a Python, so I tend to use it. Python has less accreted syntax and is generally somewhat simpler to learn. Perl 6, when it becomes available, will be a fascinating development.

(Note that the 'overviews' of Perl and Python, in particular, are woefully incomplete; whole books could be written on the topic.)

Jonathan Leffler
A++++ post, would read again!
Robert Gamble
awesome especially "when to use each" part
Khaled Al Hourani
I don't think Python was a reaction to Perl. My understanding is that it started life as a scripting language for Amoeba (a unix-ish research O/S) and was pretty much independent.
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
I agree with NXC, aside from regular expressions there is little similarity between Python and Perl and nothing I have seen to suggest any real relation, inspiration, etc. I see a much closer connection between Ruby and Perl than Python and Perl.
Robert Gamble
@NXC and Robert Gamble: my intention was to indicate that Python was independent of Perl. I'm not sure how much Guido van Rossum knew about Perl as he was designing Python, but perhaps there's a case for saying that where there were two choices and Perl had taken option A, then Python took option B.
Jonathan Leffler
Lol Python and Perl have nothing in common. They share a lot of common features like any other languages, and then don't.
Matt Joiner
+1 great post sir!
N 1.1
note the zen of python is basically the antithesis of TMTOWTDI so i would say it could be a reaction to perl. iirc TCL was slightly after perl and is also fairly reactionary against perl, though TCLs reaction is in syntax and language complexity, not ways to do things
jk
@jk: Tcl/Tk was under development in 1987 and first released in 1988; Perl 1.000 was released in December 1987. I don't think Tcl/Tk was a reaction to Perl - it was an independent invention. Python was started in 1989. Perl may not have had much influence on the basics of Python (or Tcl/Tk) after all - except to the extent that any language developments are aware of the existence of other languages (C++, Java, C#, ...).
Jonathan Leffler
Whatever the original intentions, it's clear that later Python development and the python community have preferred readability and consistency over Perl's more flexible but terse syntax. Excellent post Jonathan
Martin Beckett
+12  A: 

First, there are two unrelated things in the list "Perl, Python awk and sed".

Thing 1 - simplistic text manipulation tools.

  • sed. It has a fixed, relatively simple scope of work defined by the idea of reading and examining each line of a file. sed is not designed to be particularly readable. It is designed to be very small and very efficient on very tiny unix servers.

  • awk. It has a slightly less fixed, less simple scope of work. However, the main loop of an awk program is defined by the implicit reading of lines of a source file.

These are not "complete" programming languages. While you can -- with some work -- write fairly sophisticated programs in awk, it rapidly gets complicated and difficult to read.

Thing 2 - general-purposes programming languages. These have a rich variety of statement types, numerous built-in data structures, and no wired-in assumptions or shortcuts to speak of.

  • Perl.

  • Python.

When to use them.

  • sed. Never. It really doesn't have any value in the modern era of computers with more than 32K of memory. Perl or Python do the same things more clearly.

  • awk. Never. Like sed, it reflects an earlier era of computing. Rather than maintain this language (in addition to all the other required for a successful system), it's more pleasant to simply do everything in one pleasant language.

  • Perl. Any programming problem of any kind. If you like free-thinking syntax, where there are many, many ways to do the same thing, perl is fun.

  • Python. Any programming problem of any kind. If you like fairly limited syntax, where there are fewer choices, less subtlety, and (perhaps) more clarity. Python's object-oriented nature makes it more suitable for large, complex problems.

Background -- I'm not bashing sed and awk out of ignorance. I learned awk over 20 years ago. Did many things with it; used to teach it as a core unix skill. I learned Perl about 15 years ago. Did many sophisticated things with it. I've left both behind because I can do the same things in Python -- and it is simpler and more clear.

There are two serious problems with sed and awk, neither of which are their age.

  1. The incompleteness of their implementation. Everything sed and awk do can be done in Python or Perl, often more simply and sometimes faster, too. A shell pipeline has some performance advantages because of its multi-processing. Python offers a subprocess module to allow me to recover those advantages.

  2. The need to learn yet another language. By doing things in Python (or Perl) your implementation depends on fewer languages, with a resulting increase in clarity.

S.Lott
Some pretty fatuous arguments against awk/sed. The adjustable wrench has not supplanted the open spanner for the same reason sed and awk still ship. Sometimes the simple tool is the best for the job. I write a lot of perl, but for a simple chain of piped commands, awk/sed are quicker than perl -e
RET
You can't assume availability of anything but sh, sed and awk on most non-linux unix systems. If you want something to work on an out-of-the-box Solaris, HP/UX or AIX install, you're stuck with sed and awk.
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@NXC: not really. Perl and Python are available from the vendors. For example, see http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/p/os/aix/linux/
S.Lott
@RET: "for a simple chain of piped commands" -- sometimes it's quicker to replace the pipe with a simple Python program.
S.Lott
@RET: Tried to provide my justification -- been using awk and perl for decades -- I'm not sure what more I can provide for evidence other than my experience.
S.Lott
Half of my shell scripts use either sed or awk. They are far from dead. Python is my preferred scripting language, but sometimes sed and awk are the best tool for the job. Just because they have been in use for many years, does not mean they are obsolete.
Jeremy Cantrell
RET
@Jeremy Cantrell: I don't believe I said age was the issue. I believe I said incompleteness was the issue. I'll update the answer to emphasize that.
S.Lott
@RET: I'm taking a strong position for a reason. They should be looked at as different from perl and python; unrelated. They don't solve a problem I ever have anymore since I started using Python for all scripting.
S.Lott
I fully support this answer! I've used sed, Perl and Python heavily. Let sed have peace in its coffin.
Matt Joiner
A: 

they all suck I just want to insert text at the start of each line then drop whatever comes next to a new line. I can't for the life of me figure it out. I can insert text to the start of the each line but can't get it to drop the text after the inserted text to the new line

from this

1 some text
2 some text

to this

$$ Ge 1:1
some text
$$ Ge 1:2
some text
paul
They all suck because you do not know how to use them. If you have a real problem, submit a new question, describe your problem and explain how you go about getting the output.
ghostdog74
this answer is made of win
Matt Joiner
Perl: `perl -pe '$_ = "\$\$ Ge 1:$_"; s/( 1:\d+)\s*/$1\n/;'`; awk: `awk '{ print "$$ Ge 1:" $1; $0=substr($0,length($1)+2); print $0; }'`. I'm sure it can be done in Python too; doing it in `sed` is hard enough that I would not bother unless awk, Perl or Python was specifically vetoed.
Jonathan Leffler
A: 

When to use them: awk - never - brian d foy.

I think brian slightly missed the mark with this recommendation. The fact is, on Linux and the other UNIX environments, awk is a useful tool to be used with bash, sh, and ksh for quick text processings. The idea of scripting itself is you solve your problem by gluing together this tool, that tool. Hence in admin scripts, it is common to has ls, grep, |, awk, time, ps, etc. Each is a tool that the scripter combines like a builder brick by brick to finish the building (to solve the problem at hand).

For instance I am a team member of the team managing paintball gear supplies dotcom. This e-commerce site is based on the LAMP stack. For automated processing and normalizing data feeds from various suppliers into the back end database, we employ and maintain a diversified mix of scripts, including bash, perl, php, and even expect. Each has its strengths based on the available modules and API. In the bash scripts we do quick patterns match and appropriate actions on the patterns as needed using awk without the need to switch to PERL. One thing I would also like to point out, which has not been emphasized in the thread, is that a fair number of these scripts were purchased, or gotten from the open source. If the script came as Perl, we maintain it as Perl; if the script came as Php, we maintain it as Php; if it came as bash, we maintain it as bash; we do not re-write it in another language just because we think it is less efficient in the original language.

tao quam
it was S.Lott who wrote that response you've quoted, not brian d foy...
plusplus
+1  A: 

After mastering a few dozen languages, you get tired of people like S. Lott.

Sed is the best tool for extremely simple command-line pipelines. In the hands of a sed master, it's suitable for one-offs of arbitrary complexity, but it should not be used in production code except in very simple substitution pipelines. Stuff like 's/this/that/.'

Gawk (the GNU awk) is by far the best choice for complex data reformatting when there is only a single input source and a single output (or, multiple outputs sequentially written). Since a great deal of real-world work conforms to this description, and a good programmer can learn gawk in two hours, it is the best choice. On this planet, simpler and faster is better!

Perl or Python are far better than any version of awk or sed when you have very complex input/output scenarios. The more complex the problem is, the better off you are using python, from a maintenance and readability standpoint. Note, however, that a good programmer can write readable code in any language, and a bad programmer can write unmaintainable crap in any useful language, so the choice of perl or python can safely be left to the preferences of the programmer if said programmer is skilled and clever.

Charlie
A: 

In reply to ghostdog74.

This is "easy", you can do it with sed:

sed 's/^\([^ ]*\) *\(.*\)$/$$ Ge 1:\1\n\2/'
LatinSuD