As a developer, why would I NOT want to use Dreamweaver as simply an advanced Code Editor?

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+5 Q:

As a developer, why would I NOT want to use Dreamweaver as simply an advanced Code Editor?

I am an applications developer for a for-profit college in Virginia. At this point I could code all of what I do in notepad if I wanted to, or had to, but I prefer to use an IDE for speed and organization. As a Mac user, I've used such IDEs as NotePad++, Coda, TextMate, TextEdit, NetBeans, and of course Dreamweaver.

At work my company owns licenses for the Adobe Suite that includes Dreamweaver and I enjoy the code hinting, the grouping of related files, the built-in FTP, the code snippets and custom keyboard actions. I get flack from other developers when I mention that I use Dreamweaver.

Is there a reason why I should NOT be using it...or is it just a case similar to people who think only black and white tattoos are cool and anything else isn't?

Thoughts?

+5 A:

If you like it then use it. It's only up to you which editor to use and to decide is it worth that money.

Māris Kiseļovs 2010-09-09 15:19:10

OP pointed out that Dreamweaver is free for them, so the money question is pretty much moot in this case.

Peter Ajtai 2010-09-09 15:45:14

Even if they get it for free, is it still worth "the money". I mean I used some shitty ass editors that were free, and they totally were not worth the money!

Brad F Jacobs 2010-09-09 15:49:44

I guess since money is not the issue...the question really is about why NOT to use DW...not necessarily why to use whatever I want...I just want to be sure that there isn't something i'm missing

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:54:31

+1 A:

If it forces nothing on you (if it lets you edit HTML without adding all kinds of nonsense you're not interested in), and you like using it, I see no reason not to. Especially since you mentioned some interesting features it has that you like to use.

Those "other developers" are probably thinking in black and white, unless Dreamweaver cannot be used as simply a code editor, but I believe it can.

I wouldn't care much about what those other developers think, unless they have compelling arguments. I think you would've mentioned those, if they had any. They're probably also the kind of developer that thinks anything Microsoft or Apple or whatever makes is automatically crap.

Rob 2010-09-09 15:19:33

+3 A:

Obviously we could all do 99% of our coding in notepad, but we choose IDEs for their productivity boosting, code-writing abbilities.

It depends what you are developing in. If you're coding C# and .NET using Dreamweaver would be an odd choice, though you could make it work.

If you're developing client side web stuff in XHTML, JavaScript, and CSS Dreamweaver is a fine choice.

Nate Bross 2010-09-09 15:19:34

I primarily work with PHP, jQuery, and of course XHTML and CSS. I don't do any C# or .NET at this point. PHP being server-side...would you still consider it an odd choice?

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:24:09

@d2burke - Dreamweaver comes with a whole collection of php built-in snippets and integrates very well into a php development environment. It won't be the choice for everyone, but I find php development in Dreamweaver very suitable.

Joel Etherton 2010-09-09 15:28:24

If you're doing LAMP work (even without the L or the A part) Dreamweaver is a very fine choice.

Nate Bross 2010-09-09 15:41:15

+6 A:

The people who object to you using Dreamweaver probably mean the WYSIWYG part which is known to produce tag soup.

By the way, NotePad++, Coda, TextMate and TextEdit are just editors, not IDEs, because they don't integrate build automation or debugging tools out of the box.

Reinis I. 2010-09-09 15:21:41

Understood, I have seem this playing around with the 'Insert' features...puts a bunch of junk in there...but I don't ever use them. I suppose some people think that is the only way it can be used. Thanks for the tip on 'Tag Soup'...never heard that term before.

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:29:58

+1 A:

I've used it, a few, and quite time ago. IMHO, the worst feature of Dreamweaver was that the basic layout of almost all HTML web pages was controlled using tables. If you wanted to write an accesible HTML page (wich was requirement for a bunch of customers) you had to fight against it, and code the divs against its natural tendence to build tables.

Tomas Narros 2010-09-09 15:22:50

+1 A:

Experienced web developers often use plain text editors (with syntax-highlighting) because the richer tools can get in the way as much as they help. However, any tool that lets you control every last character of the code will generally keep any developer happy, and I believe Dreamweaver does allow this via its bidirectional WYSIWYG-code editing mechanism.

Marcelo Cantos 2010-09-09 15:23:32

Ok, yes, at this point I don't see much that gets in the way...as long as I stay away from any of the 'Insert' functions or built-in 'Sprys'. I haven't had any trouble. That's why the whole idea that people have a problem with it has thrown me for a loop.

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:26:45

+2 A:

Any person who gives you flack for your choice of editor is not a true developer. Certain IDEs have certain benefits based on the languages/frameworks they are targeting to speed or ease development pains. If your company bought Adobe, and you like Dreamweaver and code comfortably in it... then keep doing it. Dreamweaver is an outstanding product, and if it does what you need it to do then use it.

None of these developers who give you flack are responsible for your paycheck, so screw them. Use the tool that gets it done. If someone shows you a better one, have no shame in switching. If they don't, keep on keepin' on.

Joel Etherton 2010-09-09 15:26:11

+5 A:

The issue most people have with Dreamweaver is that it's a code generator, and code generators are renowned for producing poor-quality HTML. (the main issue with that - other than pride in one one's word - being that it causes cross-browser compatibility issues)

if you take away the code generation aspect, it's a straight fight between any other IDE, and other IDEs are just as good or better.

That said, I haven't used Dreamweaver in a long time so I can't really comment on its current version. Maybe the code generation has improved massively (but I doubt it). Maybe it really is a better IDE than all the rest. In the end, the choice of IDE is a personal one; if you're comfortable in Dreamweaver, then it's a good choice for you.

Spudley 2010-09-09 15:27:59

Well, I don't really use the code generation much, but the stuff I listed above just works great...and the error checking is decent, though it does provide a reason for the error...just the line.Do other IDEs typically provide the reason for the error? I remember seeing that sort of thing back when I did dev in C# using Visual Studio

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:39:12

+2 A:

I personally use Eclipse [currently 3.6 Helios], but have worked once on DW and I must say that it is extremely handy when it comes to write HTML or CSS. It is not that useful when it comes to write PHP or other programming languages, but for frontend it is VERY nice.

Tomasz Kowalczyk 2010-09-09 15:40:35

What about Eclipse did you like for PHP development? That's really what I focus on at work...I mean, its in everything I do here

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:42:34

I like Eclipse for the reason I generally love free and Open Source software - it's totally customizable, modifiable, etc. ;] Eclipse + PDT + MouseFeed + AnyEdit + some other in the background == "The way I am". You can install any plugin and test whether it wil stay or uninstall it. Other choice would be NetBeans, but I personally can't get used to it. What I dislike most about those two, that they are written in Java, so they are quite slow, but acceptable for me.

Tomasz Kowalczyk 2010-09-09 16:34:39

Good stuff man, thanks for the info. I actually downloaded NetBeans today to test it out a bit. Also, I am familiar with the environment from using Flex/Flash Builder since I understand they are all built on the same code base. So it seems the add-ons are what do it for you...any repository for 'add-ons' that I can visit?

d2burke 2010-09-10 02:16:55

+3 A:

I do like Dreamweaver when I'm building front ends and I want to see what I'm building. When it comes to coding I'd pick another tool. I think NetBeans is great for PHP and I love it how it raises code problems, and HTML issues (especially in regards to accessibility, standards, doctypes). Notepad++ is a godsend! I couldn't develop without it.

One think I always hated with Dreamweaver was the auto JavaScript features (and later SPRY framework) as these appealed to non coders as they provide functionality. What they don't realise is that Dreamweaver will produced bloated, horrible scripts. I once produced a JS/CSS dynamic menu using 2 CSS classes and 11 lines of unobtrusive JS. When getting Dreamweaver to produce something similar using a wizard it produced JS code in my page and a 1200 line JS file.

When I'm writing C# I have to use Visual Studio...

Just something I wanted to get off my chest.

Mike Sav 2010-09-09 15:42:33

Ok, so I see the deal about the bloated code being inserted...if you use those sorts of features...but why would you use Notepad++? What does it give you that makes it a godsend?

d2burke 2010-09-09 15:48:16

I like Notepad++ as I can open files in it quickly (opening Visual Studio, Netbeans or Dreamweaver takes loading time, sometimes I'm in a real hurry if I've got a live issue), there's no loading time and it is light on resources. It colour codes for different languages, recognises key words, I can compare files, format my code, with the TextFX plug-in I can check my code for W3C compliance. Other features (which I have to admit I don't use) are automatic completion, bookmarking, an FTP browser, a hex editor, etc, etc.

Mike Sav 2010-09-10 07:24:31

(Sorry, had to do this over 2 comments) So in short I can do a lot in a free package that will open files very quickly and let me get straight to work. That's why I like Notepad++, it might not be to everyone's taste but it works for me.

Mike Sav 2010-09-10 07:24:50

wow, that's good stuff Mike. I haven't really considered the load time issue, but I do notice the lag from time to time as CS5 does tend to hog resources. I was also unaware that Notepad++ had W3C compliance checking. Thanks

d2burke 2010-09-10 15:29:11

+1 A:

Funny, I remember a time in pre-Adobe acquisition days when Dreamweaver was considered the serious developer's tool and tools like Front Page were for novices. I agree with others that it may be the code generation aspects that the detractors have in mind. I used them once when I was learning PHP. After seeing the generated code, once was enough. Like you I now use it for it's other features.

curt 2010-09-09 16:22:34

That IS funny...I actually built my first website in FrontPage years ago...and I do remember the nightmare-ish battles with some of the generated code. Funny also that Frontpage was renamed to Expressions, which is really just a new face on Visual Studio. It seems from the comments to be based mostly on either appearances (as in, not wanting to look like a novice for using DW)...or past negative experiences.

d2burke 2010-09-09 16:27:23

Anyone who knows enough about coding to complain about "tag soup" or the spaghetti Javascript Dreamweaver produces should also know how to close the "snippets" toolbox and just use the program for what it's good at.

I personally find Dreamweaver's Live Code to be an excellent tool for debugging jQuery.

Isaac Lubow 2010-09-11 09:00:43

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As a developer, why would I NOT want to use Dreamweaver as simply an advanced Code Editor?

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