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383

answers:

6

Please excuse the subjective nature of this question but I'm trying to determine whether to focus on PHP for my next job search because I'm looking for a less formal work environment.

Do I have an impression that PHP jobs tend to be in less formal work environments such as smaller companies/startups with more of a progressive attitude?

+2  A: 

My current position as a PHP Developer is for a smaller organization (Non-profit). But my last position was for a multi-million dollar mid-sized company that was developing rather impressive solutions with nearly all open-source/free technologies.

I do think, and I may be wrong, that the larger the company the greater the chance they're using something like .NET in the corporate world. That's based on me having two jobs for larger companies, and both asking that I use .NET solutions. Plus meeting several friends in user groups who work for larger companies, which also use .NET. I blame this on Businessmen running these companies and thinking "If we pay for it, it's better." This thinking is obviously flawed.

You need to consider also that PHP/MySQL/Linux are all "Free". Smaller organizations (without the massive budgets) will naturally gravitate to these options. It doesn't mean that these are inferior options, only that they are naturally more appealing to startups and small groups.

Jonathan Sampson
Yes. I think because of Sarbanes Oxley, open source products tend to be poo-pooed at a lot of larger companies. Thanks for the feedback.
@Lee - I think corporations wrongly equate Price with Reliability. "If we pay more for it, it must be better."
Jonathan Sampson
That's true too.
You're paying for official support
Joe Philllips
@d03boy - That's the excuse. But in the years I spent in Microsoft shops, we rarely (if ever) had to request support for anything. And in the years using PHP/Linux I have never hurt for help - places like StackOverflow really challenge the Purchase-Technologies Support Argument.
Jonathan Sampson
@Jonathan actually, it's "we paid more for it, we have a vendor to blame and to lean on when it breaks"
Alan Storm
Like theres a crash bug in mysqli probably 3 years old. Still not fixed. With Java or .Net you'd have someone to complain to. With PHP you just raise bugs and watch them get ignores.
cletus
A: 

Large corporations tend to prefer mainstream, established, conservative technologies. In my experience, that means COBOL, C, C++, Java, C#, or VB. Python, Ruby, Lisp, PHP, etc. aren't as common.

I can't say that small companies always prefer those language over Java or C#, but I can tell you that sticking with PHP will make it impossible for you to work at the larger companies that I've been a part of.

duffymo
Erm... Yahoo, Flickr, Facebook, and a dozen other major sites use PHP. Google uses Python very heavily. I think this is a very, very limited view of the market.
Cody Brocious
Impossible? My earlier experience is with Java and .Net. You think I will never be able to go back to that after working on PHP for a few years?
@Cody, those companies are full of Smart People. Typical corporations in America are ran by business men, and not developers. Ergo, the chances of larger copmanies using Purchase-Technologies is greater I would think. "If it costs more, it must be better" is their mentality.
Jonathan Sampson
@Cody, that's why I qualified "impossible" with "the larger companies that I've been a part of." I've never worked for Yahoo, Flickr, Facebook, or Google. My view is limited to the places I've been.
duffymo
duffymo
@duffy - That's because RoR is evil :)
Jonathan Sampson
@Jonathan: It goes without saying. Did you know that the creators of Rails like to abuse puppies? And don't call their mothers on Mother's Day? Not that I'm one to repeat idle gossip...
duffymo
@Lee: It's possible to come back as a Java developer after doing PHP; impossible to join my current employer as a PHP developer, because they have never done it, don't do it now, and are unlikely to ever try it.
duffymo
+5  A: 

Whether a company is informal or progressive or fun to work for has little to do with what scripting language they employ.

Maybe you should explain what you do now, and what kind of situation would be 'less formal' enough to be attractive to you. PHP is everywhere now, which means you could find yourself working at a large but conservative company on interesting projects, or at a progressive startup doing boring work to meet payroll, or in some other combination of the above.

ithcy
I think that's only partially true. Different languages have different cultures around them, which means that - generally speaking - they are used in different environments.
troelskn
A: 

Perhaps you should try figuring out where you want to work and learn what they do.

Aaron Palmer
In an abstract way, isn't that exactly what he's doing?
troelskn
Ok, I guess my point is that, he knows he wants a more laid back atmosphere, so find an actual company that fits his desires and determine to learn what needs to be learned to work there.
Aaron Palmer
+4  A: 

PHP jobs will run the board from stuffed shirt corporate gigs to stylish shirt agencies to blue shirt kaki-pants, to wear any kind of shirt you want startups. The language is un-designed so that programmers from any environment will find something familiar in there, which has helped it's adoption across wide swaths of the industry.

You will find PHP in places with less money. There's no licensing needed to start working, initial deployments are dirt-cheap, and so are people claiming toe PHP programmers. These grey collar programming jobs tend to come with a less formal dress code.

Alan Storm
A: 

Your best bet with PHP is to work for a consultancy that does Websites for small-to-medium sized companies. That can still be quite lucrative. Working directly for those same companies tends not to be. Also the smaller a company is the more likely they won't need programmers 100% of the time, making the consultancy that much more attractive (even if its more expensive).

And yes I realize that PHP is used at some big companies like Facebook, Flickr and Yahoo but they really are the exception rather than the norm. A typical large company (that isn't a "technology shop" like those three) simply won't (most of the time).

cletus