Next step after PHP: Perl or Python?

Question

It might seem it has been asked numerous times, but in fact it hasn't. I did my research, and now I'm eager to hear others' opinions.

I have experience with PHP 5, both with functional and object oriented programming methods. I created a few feature-minimalistic websites.

Professionals may agree about PHP not being a programming language that encourages good development habits. (I believe it's not the task of the tool, but this doesn't matter.) Furthermore, its performance is also controversial and often said to be poor compared to competitors.

In the 42nd podcast at Stack Overflow blog a developer from Poland asked what language he should learn in order to improve his skills. Jeff and Joel suggested that every one of them would help, altough there are specific ones that are better in some ways. Despite they made some great points, it didn't help me that much.

From a beginner point of view, there are not one may not see (correction suggested by S. Lott) many differences between Perl & Python. I would like You to emphasize their strenghts and weaknesses and name a few unique services.

Of course, this wouldn't be fair as I could also check both of them. So here's my wishlist and requirements to help You help me.

First of all, I'd like to follow OOP structures and use it fundamentally. I partly planned a multiuser CMS using MySQL and XML, so the greater the implementations are, the better. Due to its foreseen nature, string manipulation will be used intensively.

If there aren't great differences, comparisons should probably mention syntax and other tiny details that don't matter in the first place.

So, here's my question: which one should I try first -- Perl || Python?

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Conclusion

Both Perl and Python have their own fans, which is great. I'd like to say I'm grateful for all participation -- there is no trace of any flame war.

I accepted the most valued answer, although there are many great mini-articles below. As suggested more often, I will go with Python first. Then I'll try Perl later on. Let me see which one fits my mind better.

During the development of my special CMS, I'm going to ask more regarding programming doubts -- because developers now can count on each other! Thank you.

Edit: There were some people suggesting to choose Ruby or Java instead. Java has actually disappointed me. Maybe it has great features, maybe it hasn't. I wouldn't enjoy using it.

In addition, I was told to use Ruby. So far, most of the developers I communicate with have quite bad opinion about Ruby. I'll see it myself, but that's the last element on my priority list.

Answer 1

I'd go with Perl. Not everyone will agree with me here, but it's a great language well suited to system administration work, and it'll expose you to some more functional programming constructs. It's a great language for learning how to use the smallest amount of code for a given task, as well.

For the usage scenario you mentioned though, I think PHP may be your best bet still. Python does have some great web frameworks, however, so if you just want to try out a new language for developing web applications, Python might be your bet.

Answer 2

Considering that you want to do OOP quite extensively and the rather stagnant nature of Perl in recent years I'd rather suggest Python. Also it's (in my humble opinion) much less cluttered with gazillions of different syntactic elements (not to be taken that serious) but instead fresh and simple. Also I've been told, even though I've never tried myself, Perl pretty much sucks for OOP, although I can't verify that.

In terms of the standard library that comes with both languages I doubt you'll be missing much in either language.

Answer 3

Honestly, the "majority" of my programming has been in Perl and PHP and I recently decided to do my latest project in Python, and I must admit it is very nice to program with. I was hesitant of the whole no curly braces thing as that's what I've always done, but it is really very clean. At the end of the day, though, you can make good web applications with all 3, but if you are dead-set on dropping PHP to try something new I would recommend Python and the Django framework.

Answer 4

I have no experience with Python. I vouch strongly to learn Perl, not out of attrition, but because there is a TON to learn in the platform. The key concepts of Perl are: Do What I Mean (DWIM) and There's More Than One Way To Do It (TMTOWTDI). This means, hypothetically there's often no wrong way to approach a problem if the problem is adequately solved.

Start with learning the base language of Perl, then extend yourself to learning the key Perl modules, like IO::File, DBI, HTML::Template, XML::LibXML, etc. etc. search.cpan.org will be your resource. perlmonks.org will be your guide. Just about everything useful to do will likely have a module published.

Keep in mind that Perl is a dynamic and loosely structured language. Perl is not the platform to enforce draconian OOP standards, but for good reason. You'll find the language extremely flexible.

Where is Perl used? System Admins use it heavily, as already mentioned. You can still do excellent web apps either by simple CGI or MVC framework.

Answer 5

As a Perl programmer, I would normally say Perl. But coming from PHP, I think Perl is too similar and you won't actually get that much out of it. (Not because there isn't a lot to learn, but you are likely to program in Perl using the same style as you program in PHP.)

I'd suggest something completely different: Haskell (suggested by Joel), Lisp, Lua, JavaScript or C. Any one of these would make you a better programmer by opening up new ways of looking at the world.

But there's no reason to stop learning PHP in the meantime.

For a good look at the dark side of these languages, I heartily recommend: What are five things you hate about your favorite language?

Answer 6

I haven't worked with Python much, but I can tell why I didn't like about Perl when I used it.

1. OO support feels tacked on. OO in perl is very different from OO support in the other languages I've used (which include things like PHP, Java, and C#)
2. TMTOWTDI (There's More Than One Way To Do It). Good idea in theory, terrible idea in practice as it reduces code readability.
3. Perl uses a lot of magic symbols.
4. Perl doesn't support named function arguments, meaning that you need to dig into the @_ array to get the arguments passed to a function (or rather, a sub as perl doesn't have the function keyword). This means you'll see a lot of things like the example below (moved 'cause SO doesn't like code in numbered lists)

Having said all that, I'd look into Python. Unless you want to go with something heavier-weight like C++ or C#/Java.

Oh, before I forgot: I wanted to put an example for 4 above, but SO doesn't like putting code in numbered lists:

sub mySub {
    #extremely common to see in Perl, as built-ins operators operate on the $_ scalar or @_ array implicitly
    my $arg1 = shift;
    my $arg2 = shift;
}

Answer 7

Perl is a very nice language and CPAN has a ton of mature modules that will save you a lot of time. Furthermore, Perl is really moving forwards nowadays with a lot of interesting projects (unlike what uninformed fanboys like to spread around). Even a Perl 6 implementation is by now releasing working Perl 6.

I you want to do OO, I would recommend Moose.

Answer 8

Why isn't there Ruby on your list? Maybe you should give it a try.

Answer 9

If those 2 are your only choices, I would choose Python.

Otherwise you should learn javascript.

No I mean really learn it...

Answer 10

"I'd like to follow OOP structure..." advocates for Python or, even more so if you're open, Ruby. On the other hand, in terms of existing libraries, the order is probably Perl > Python >> Ruby. In terms of your career, Perl on your resume is unlikely to make you stand out, while Python and Ruby may catch the eye of a hiring manager.

As a PHP programmer, you are probably going to see all 3 as somewhat "burdensome" to get a Web page up. All have good solutions for Web frameworks, but none is quite as focussed on rendering a Web page as is PHP.

I think that Python is quite likely to be a better choice for you than Perl. It has many good resources, a large community (although not as large as Perl, probably), "stands out" a little on a resume, and has a good reputation.

Answer 11

If you won't be doing web development with this language, either of them would do. If you are, you may find that doing web development in perl is a bit more complicated, since all of the frameworks require more knowledge of the language. You can do nice things in both, but my opinion is that perl allows more rapid development.
Also, perl's regexes rock!

Answer 12

I suggest going through a beginner tutorial of each and decide for yourself which fits you better. You'll find you can do what you need to do in either:

Python Tutorial (Python Classes)

Perl Tutorial (Perl Classes) (Couldn't find a single 'official' perl tutorial, feel free to suggest one)

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In my experience python provides a cleaner, more straight-forward experience.

My issues with perl:

• 'use strict;', Taint, Warnings? - Ideally these shouldn't be needed.

• Passing variables: @; vs. $, vs shift

• Scoping my, local, ours? (The local defintion seems to particularly point out some confusion with perl, "You really probably want to be using my instead, because local isn't what most people think of as "local".".)

In general with my perl skills I still find my self referencing documentation for built-in features. Where as in python I find this less so. (I've worked in both roughly the same amount of time, but my general programming expereince has grown with time. In other words, I'd probably be a better perl programmer now)

If your a unix command line guru though, perl may come more naturally to you. Or, if your using it mainly as a replacement or extension to command line admin tasks, it may suit your needs fine. In my opinion perl is "faster on the draw" at the command line than python is.

Answer 13

I recently made the step from Perl over to Python, after a couple of Perl-only years. Soon thereafter I discovered I had started to read through all kinds of Python-code just as it were any other easy to read text — something I've never done with Perl. Having to delve into third-party Perl code has always been kind of a nightmare for me, so this came as a very very nice surprise!

For me, this means Python-code is much easier to maintain, which on the long run makes Python much more attractive than Perl.

Answer 14

Python is clean and elegant, and the fact that LOTS of C APIs have been wrapped, gives you powerful hooks to much. I also like the "Zen of Python".

• Beautiful is better than ugly.
• Explicit is better than implicit.
• Simple is better than complex.
• Complex is better than complicated.
• Flat is better than nested.
• Sparse is better than dense.
• Readability counts.
• Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
• Although practicality beats purity.
• Errors should never pass silently.
• Unless explicitly silenced.
• In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
• There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
• Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
• Now is better than never.
• Although never is often better than right now.
• If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
• If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
• Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!