views:

1258

answers:

16
+10  Q: 

Keyboard layout

Similar but different to Keyboard for programmers, simply put, what keyboard layout is the best?

I'm using Colemak and it's good but I don't think it's actually faster than Qwerty. Dvorak was certainly (for me anyway) not very fast at all. I have however found that Colemak is not so strain-inducing as Qwerty.

A: 

There isn't any hard evidence to support one layout as superior to another. Anecdotal evidence suggest that Dvorak is the best layout to reduce the likelyhood of carpal-tunnel syndrome. This alone makes it a pretty big benefit for developers.

From the little research I've done on this topic myself, there isn't any significant speed difference from one layout to another. All things being equal, it's hard to argue against qwerty as an established layout. However, I suspect that Dvorak users will argue that things aren't equal and Dvorak truly is easier on the wrist. I think it's very subjective, but like most programmers I have concerns of my own about my wrists and I strongly considering switching it up

Karl Seguin
+8  A: 

Personally, I found that using anything else than the default-layout is counterproductive in the long run. Sure, Dvorak has some advantages, but on how many Computers do you work? And how many of those have the layout you use?

I use a German Layout, which in theory is inferior for programming, because the brackets are in retarded positions (ALT GR + 7,8,9 or 9 for {[]}) whereas on the US Layout at least the square brackets can be accesses with only 1 key.

But on the other hand: I use that layout since 20 years. How long does the transition from a layout I use since 20 years to a layout that is superior in theory is gonna take? And even more important: How long will it take until the productivity gain has nullified loss of productivity during the transition phase?

Besides, I will find Qwertz on every PC and Laptop, so I do not have to have an "awkward" feeling everytime I use a different PC because it does not "my" Layout.

Michael Stum
+5  A: 

I've never used Colemak, so I can't comment on that. I've used Dvorak for 5 years, and I usually average 100 wpm on it. I used to average about 80 wpm on qwerty before I learnt Dvorak, but in my learning of Dvorak, I've unlearnt qwerty, and can't type qwerty much faster than 50 wpm (hunt and peck).

What speeds are you getting with Colemak? I'm not averse to learning new keyboard layouts....

ETA: I just had a look at their website. I think Colemak is actually too similar to qwerty, and doesn't incorporate any of the benefits of Dvorak that I find interesting (e.g., all vowels on left home row, and most common consonants on right home row, T and H adjacent, etc.). Hmm, that might be a tough sell, for me anyway....

ETA2: In regard to Dvorak not feeling very fast, in my experience one has to unlearn qwerty (i.e., type Dvorak exclusively without switching back to qwerty) to some degree to get Dvorak fast. This probably affects Colemak less, because of its similarity to qwerty. It took me about a month of Dvorak to get to 50 wpm, and a year to get to my full speed of 100 wpm.

For the record, since I never used Macintosh keybindings (Ctrl-X/C/V) for copy/paste, but instead used WordStar keybindings (Shift-Del => cut, Ctrl-Ins => copy, Shift-Ins => paste), I didn't have to unlearn those. I did have to relearn how to type H/J/K/L in vi (my text editor of choice), however.

Chris Jester-Young
I might be missing something here, but how can something like 'what keyboard layout is the best' have a definitive answer?
SCdF
A: 

I used Dvorak for a year and it was great. The biggest problem was windows shortcuts... It was just plain harder to do simple things like copy & paste on Dvorak. Not to mention I had to rebind my whole keyboard whenever I bought a new game.

I occasionally jump back to Dvorak and am surprised how fast I can type on it still, after not having used it in so long. The transition from Dvorak to QWERTY was hard... I found Dvorak much more natural.

Kevin
It's interesting that you mention going from Dvorak to QWERTY was hard, as I had the same experience. After 3 months of using Dvorak exclusively I hadn't regained the full speed I was used to, and in frustration I decided to revert back to QWERTY...
J c
However, I was surprised by how unnatural and awkward it was to type on QWERTY to the extent that I continued on with Dvorak and am still using it 8 years later.
J c
I should also elaborate that I did eventually reach my ~100WPM peak speed on Dvorak several months later, but it did take some additional effort with Mavis Beacon (an older version that supported Dovark).
J c
A: 

Here's an interesting article that covers some of the history of the Dvorak keyboard.

"This article examines the history, economics, and ergonomics of the typewriter keyboard. We show that David's version of the history of the market's rejection of Dvorak does not report the true history, and we present evidence that the continued use of Qwerty is efficient given the current understanding of keyboard design."

Personally, I don't care as long as the control key is next to the A, or whatever that is on a Dvorak keyboard!

Mark Harrison
The letters A and M are in the same spot in Dvorak as they are in QWERTY, so your "select all" is safe. :)
Kev
+2  A: 

@Mark

The A and M keys stay in the same spot.

alt text

Kevin
+2  A: 

I have been a touch typer for 20 years having learned how to type in high school. I started having trouble with RSI 7 years ago. I'd wake up in the middle of the night with my pinky and ring finger falling asleep (yes, it'd wake me up).

I taught myself Dvorak while on 3 weeks of paternity leave and have never switched back. As mentioned, the biggest problem has been the usefulness of hotkeys, especailly Cut-Copy-Paste. I use Hotkeycontrol to remap these keys back to their original locations and have not had any problem since.

If you already know how to touch type, switching layouts will be easier to learn than if you are a hunt-and-peck typist.

y0mbo
A: 

I spent about four and a half months on Colemak earlier this year. Its similarities to qwerty make it very easy to learn, and it's very easy to switch between Colemak and qwerty, but at the same time it's tightly optimised to the home row and has a few other tricks up its sleeve that are supposed to make typing faster and more comfortable, so the thinking goes.

However, I have found that it gets over-hyped a bit by some of its users. I didn't find any advantage in terms of speed, and you really need a split ergonomic keyboard if you are to see any benefits in comfort from it. Conventional flat keyboards are actually more comfortable if your layout doesn't focus on the home row, otherwise you have two factors combining to force your wrists together into a rather awkward angle. I've also found that it has little advantage if you're programming, especially in curly-bracket-y languages such as C#, PHP or JavaScript where your fingers have to go all over the place anyway no matter what layout you are using.

These days, I occasionally switch to Colemak if I have to type a lot of text, but most of the time I just stick with qwerty.

jammycakes
A: 

As I wrote in an answer to another question (Keyboard for programmers), I like the old, basic, 101-key IBM Model M keyboard. I leave it QWERTY.

Zack Peterson
A: 

I switched over to Dvorak 5+ years ago and find it superior to QWERTY. I like that all the vowels and the common consonants are on the home row, and that the layout tries to maximize alternating hands.

I don't type much faster on Dvorak than I did on QWERTY, but I expend a lot less effort doing so.

Switching computers can be tricky, but in a corporate environment you should have a domain and roaming profiles. In that case, whenever you're logged on as you you'll get your alternate layout.

Bill
A: 

I unfortunately asked something similar to this question today. The reason was that I decided to try and give up qwerty. I switched to colemak wich focuses a lot on the home row. But it's just to hard to keep with it. Plus I feel like an idiot when I have to switch down my speed cause I need to think before I type. I really hate the fact the there aren't more keyboards that anyone can teach you at a younger age. Plus I feel that if there were keyboards that I might buy with Colemak or dvorak layout I would.

I asked around to some firms that handle in hardware and they said they can't get me a dvorak. Oh well think I'll stick like many others to QWERTY for convenience reasons. All things considered it's good to know there are alternatives.

Mihai Lazar
If you don't mind the extra cost there seem to be a few hard-wired Dvorak keyboards online available for purchase. Here's one with a dedicated key to switch between QWERTY and Dvorak, and the keys are labelled with both layouts: http://www.ergocanada.com/products/keyboards/dvortyboard_standard.html
J c
You can also remove the key from your keyboard and put them back where you need them. All you need is a screwdriver and some time....
Hapkido
+1  A: 

I looked briefly at Dvorak a couple of years ago, but the big downer for me was it is very anglo-centric. I touch type in two languages (English and French), and I have to admit that I Ctrl-Shift between two keyboard layouts for that (yes, crazy, but hey!).

I'm aware that there is a French-optimised Dvorak, but what I'd like is an ergonomic layout which gives me easy access to accents, but also keeps the useful programming characters in not-too-farout places.

Benjol
+5  A: 

I've been using Colemak for about 10 months now, and love it. It hasn't made me much faster, but it has dramatically reduced my wrist pain.

I was initially skeptical of Colemak because one of its main selling points is that it is much more similar to Qwerty than Dvorak is, and therefore easier to learn. I was afraid that it might have sacrificed ergonomics for similarity to Qwerty. This is not the case. Dvorak is optimized for alternating work between the left and right hand, and using it felt like a delicate left-right dance. Colemak on the other hand is optimized for grouping common letter pairs (digraphs) together so that you can hit them with one smooth hand motion. I find this more comfortable than the focus on alternation in Dvorak. Colemak also remedies two minor annoyances I had with Dvorak: "R" isn't on the home row, and "L" is delegated to the right pinkie, making it harder to reach than it's frequency warrants. Other Colemak benefits:

  • Caps Lock is mapped to backspace. Brilliant!
  • The punctuation keys are in the same place as in Qwerty. I didn't find the top-row Dvorak placement any worse, but I didn't find it any better either, and this is one less thing to relearn.
  • The Z/X/C/V keys don't move, so the most common shortcut keys don't need to be relearned.

Pretty much the only thing I liked better about Dvorak is the convenient placement of the "-/_" key, which as a programmer I use a lot. But nothing is perfect, I guess.

More information on my switching experience here

Gabe Moothart
A: 

I decided to find all the posts regarding Dvorak and add this little bit of insight from Reason magazine regarding the Dvorak keyboard:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/29944.html

Summary: Dvorak is to keyboards what Linus Pauling is to Vitamin C (no one could reproduce his results) and the whole "QWERTY is set up to reduce typing speed" is false.

jcollum
+2  A: 

I really like the neo-layout, it’s by far the best layout for programmers!

  • It allows you to type german and english texts very fast and easy, without effort

    Using optimized layouts you can actually save a few km per day on the way your fingers have to move

  • All vowels are on one side and the most common keys can be found on the homerow

  • It does not have a capslock key, but uses it as third level modifier. all special chars used in programming can be reached without moving your fingers. {}() are right under your index and middle fingers.

  • You can type a lot of accented characters and if you make use of the compose functionality you can type almost every unicode character

  • You have an integrated numpad and navigation block on the mainfield. no need to move your hands out of the resting position

  • correct typography: quotation marks, apostrophes, em-dashes and much more

  • Bonus for scientists/mathematicians: mathematical symbols and greek letters on layer 5 and 6

knittl
+1  A: 

I’m on the same opinion as knittl. The Neo layout is just fanatastic for programming, so the brackets are all placed on the fore and middle finger and not on the numberkeys or on the weak left little finger, like in QWERTY. Also I get a lot of typographical correct forms, e. g. for quotation marks: “” and my favorite letters long s (ſ) and a capital ß (ẞ). That is really cool. Also I like the navigation block und the number block on the 4th. level. And last not least, there are greek letters νφνφγνφγνοοωϰ on the 5th. and mathematical symbols on the 6th level ΦℕΓℕΦΓΣΨΣΨ∈∃∃∈. And of course the compose functionallity is wonderful.

Frakturfreak