Why do dynamic language newbies seem to default to Ruby instead of Python?

Question

NOTE: This is NOT flame bait. I'm generally curious, so please, don't start any wars!

Whenever I read a Ruby blog it goes something like:

I used to be a devout PHP or Perl developer until one day I decided to start using Ruby. Now I love it.

Considering that without Rails, Ruby would be just another obscure dynamic language, it makes me wonder why it seems to be the defacto standard for people starting out with dynamic languages.

Python seems more mature, faster, none of the memory leaking issues with its virtual machine, wider application coverage and a very clean syntax subset.

Ruby, on the other hand, is the opposite of all of these, and is technically more complex due to the meta-programming magic (that the Rails guys seem to love) that can change the langauge so significantly that it might as well be a different language in some cases.

Why then, do people seem to gravitate towards Ruby when Python is right there?

Some guesses:

• They're web developers who've done nothing but PHP and Rails is the new hotness
• Only Ruby programmers feel the need to blog about their shift from PHP/Perl to Ruby
• They like the meta-programming aspects
• There's a hardcore community around it that they want to be a part of

Answer 1

Python developers don't want to admit starting with PHP? ;-)

Answer 2

Two words: good marketing.

Answer 3

As somebody who's recently become a Ruby fan instead of a Python fan (I tried both out), I can tell you first-hand: Ruby is more fun. The functional style and using "blocks" are actually very appealing to some people. Also, that "meta programming magic" stuff is really fun for some of us. I think Ruby also appeals to the (mostly displaced) old Perl crowd. It's very similar in its artistic, free and almost surreal approach.

I am not some web developer who's only used php - honestly I've hardly ever used php, and my first language was C (good 'ol K&R). I think it's just a personal choice. I think Ruby is very "right brained" in its appeal. I'd like to learn Python, too, because it's so widely used and a good, solid language... but Ruby is still just plain FUN to use.

Honestly, why does anybody pick any language? Why use C# over C++ or Java? They're all OO and have extensive libraries/resources, right? Why use Python over Perl (Python was just some obscure, rarely used language when I first started using Perl, after all). I could go on and on...

Answer 4

My impression is that the Python culture is less oriented to emphatic public communication, so you tend to hear more about Ruby than you do about Python in many contexts. Whether this applies to "dynamic language newbies" directly (since they're presumably not yet very aligned to either culture) is less clear.

Answer 5

Speaking as a python fan, I think if I were a perl developer and switched to ruby, I'd love it too :-)

Answer 6

Internet chatter:

There seemed to be an explosion of Ruby newbies when Rails became popular. We saw the same thing when Twitter and 37 Signals came out.

A couple years ago, when it was announced that Python was being used at Google and Youtube, the same thing happened. And the same thing happened when Django came out.

Answer 7

I was inspired to learn Ruby after reading Why's Poignant Guide.

I mean, come on.. CARTOON FOXES.

Answer 8

I think it's the "many frameworks" problem: the tyranny of choice. Although I like having options in terms of web frameworks, it may be difficult for newbies to decide on a framework in Python. On the other hand, anyone who goes to Ruby pretty much knows that Rails is the web framework.

Answer 9

Python is pragmatic.

Ruby is pure.

Answer 10

For me personally it was the community. I learned Ruby back around 2001 for some simple scripting tasks, and met up with the local users group. I found them very interesting to talk with, as most had wide experience with many languages and were pragmatic sorts. Ex smalltalk hackers were definitely the core of the early Ruby community.

Rails has brought a lot of attention to Ruby, and to some extent diluted some of the values that the community was formed around originally such as MINSWAN.

But Rails has also brought many smart people into the Ruby community to contribute. I'd argue that the Ruby community is doing some of the most interesting stuff in the OSS world, such as Github.

The thing I most often miss when dealing with other languages is how Ruby developers highly value elegance and simplicity. You see this not just in the code but in the websites, blogs, etc. They certainly aren't the only ones, but on the average, I find getting rolling with a new ruby library a smooth process. Websites tend to be well targeted with succinct documentation and useful examples. Where's the equivalents to Peepcode? Railscasts?

Ruby as a community knows how to market very well. Many say this with a derogatory slant, jumping on the backlash bandwagon against the hype and certain rockstar egos. That has its place, but they're also missing the huge advantages of a community that knows how to communicate in ways that are clear as well as entertaining. Developers find Ruby to be a sanctuary against some of the more soul sucking aspects of being in the software business.

Ruby is fun, and surprisingly, people discover fun matters.

Answer 11

I am not convinced "dynamic language newbies" (whatever that means) are defaulting to Ruby over Python. If they are, there are several good reasons, not least of which is that Ruby is more dynamic than Python.

If someone is truly a newbie to dynamic languages, though, I think it is more likely that they will find Python before they find Ruby (because Python is more established), and that Python will be more easily grokkable than Ruby (because Python is a smaller step from typical nondynamic languages like C or Java). Ruby is probably more appealing to Perlers and Lispers, but if you already know Perl or Lisp, I wouldn't consider you new to dynamic languages.

(If Perl is not a dynamic language, someone should clear up what exactly is meant by "dynamic language". For that matter, Wikipedia considers PHP dynamic also.)

Answer 12

I suspect Ruby has higher visibility than Python due primarily to Rails. So does google trends.

Answer 13

I don't see how this not flame bait, you obviously dislike Ruby and want to complain about it. Isn't this a place to ask some real questions?

Answer 14

For me it's just a matter of taste. I know this will downvoted as help but this "magic" incarnation init or the like look plain ugly to me. Of course I use indentation for my code but I dislike beeing forced using it. What bothers me terribly is that I have to write def whatever(self)

Hell what else should it be at the first positon in an object oriented languages? This assignments self. whatever is another distate for me. But if I'd just the choice between Perl and Python I surely knew what I'd choose. But now I have Ruby and that's what I simply like. I'm even considereing wether I'd like Smalltalk more than Ruby and believe it or not I found something even more appealing as Ruby to me. That's io http://www.iolanguage.com/

I've looked into it and just find it fantastic. But I'm still using Ruby because of Rails and JRuby and whatever. What I especially like about Io even more than in Ruby is the nice interfacing to C. In my stupid opinion. the order is probably Ruby,Python, Io, Tcl/Tk in this regard I'M undecided in both... But definitly the C code is extremly clean in Io.

Yes I know it's a matter of taste and anybody can disagree with me about it, but that's what's so nice of having a choice. You can pick what you prefer....

Answer 15

I absolutely disagree with your claim that Ruby is the default. If you look at language statistics like the TIOBE index or Ohloh the results are quite contrary. Overall Python has much more momentum.