As a programmer, I feel burnt out if the management give me spec after spec, day after day. I think I can code 6 hours a day very focused, but non-stop coding does burn me out a little, especially it is 1 year or 18 months non-stop. A mere 1 week or 2 week vacation per year isn't going to help much. Sometimes I want to take some time to learn new things, or just to take a break for a month so as to re-charge, like back in college when we have holidays for 1 month during winter or 2.5 months during summer. What do you think?
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325answers:
10
+3
A:
welcome to the wonderful world of being a programmer! You are a hammer, you will pound nails until you are no longer needed, or you break and are replaced. bang, bang, bang!
just wait until a few new hammers get out of school with better and newer nailing techniques. You'll have to find time to learn those new tricks or they'll replace you.
KM
2009-05-26 19:14:08
A:
Honestly, get another job man if you cant take it. Its like a road construction guy telling his foreman that he is tired of holding the Jackhammer and cant he go nip off for a week to learn asphalt material engineering? You took a job as a programmer, and your company is giving you stuff to program.
That said, you can talk with your manager or supervisor, let them know that you feel you have potential beyond your current tasks, and request that they help you reach that potential with learning new things. But be prepared to 1) Still do ALL of your current programming work, 2) Be able to Justify how what you are learning will contribute specifically to the company's bottom line and 3) Be prepared to review what you learned and start applying it.
If this sounds a bit harsh or cold, I am sorry and I do not mean it to, but the reality of the situation is that your employer did not hire you to help you grow but to help the company grow. You have to make your own opportunities within that context.
Goblyn27
2009-05-26 19:15:25
or maybe longer vacation time per year... some one told me a high profile silicon valley company has 10 days per year for vacation and sick day combined.... so you have 2 weeks to take vacation per year, but if you are sick for 5 days, then you only have a week.
動靜能量
2009-05-26 19:19:33
I disagree. Programmers are not code monkeys. We have a right to increase breadth. That's why Google has 20% time for whatever you want to do. If your company is not doing AJAX and you want to bring it in, then you should get 1 day a week to look at AJAX on employer time. And again, I disagree that you're there to help the company grow. The relationship is mutual. My company needs me just as I need them. If you're star programmer you can even have the attitude that "My company needs me, I don't need them".
aleemb
2009-05-26 19:35:47
We don't have a "right" to increase breadth. We have a right to minimum wage and a safe workplace; our other "rights" at our workplace are whatever we and our employers sign off on.
mquander
2009-05-26 19:51:26
A star programmer wouldn't have an attitude in the first place, much less a shakey claim to entitlements. A star programmer isnt just someone who knows code, it is someone who enriches the enterprise with his efforts and his presence. I know I have done a good job as a programmer when I can look back and say that my company is now a better place from my involvement.
Goblyn27
2009-05-26 21:32:44
Goblyn - what if you're a programmer that doesn't really care about the company your working for? It seems like most companies exist solely to make money, not to actually benefit society or to contribute to the field of Computer Science (almost by definition, companies can't survive if their primary motivation isn't profit). I didn't become a programmer to earn a paycheck or to make my employer rich - I studied Computer Science for the same reason people study Astronomy or Archaeology - it's a fascinating field. But is there a place for such programmers to work?
Cybis
2009-05-26 22:27:10
Cybis, what you are describing is academia. If you become a professor teaching CS, you will also have freetime, labtime, grad students, etc, to help you pursue that goal. But you will find that even in Academia, there are grinds, burnout, and a lot of doing stuff you dont care about (like teaching computers 101 "Class this is a keyboard. Repeater after me Kee-BORED")
Goblyn27
2009-05-27 17:00:06
Let's not talk about what the "rights" are for a moment. Are we human after all? We can think about the enterprise, the profits, elitism, star programmer. I know many people think that way too. I just want to think, at the end of the day, we are still human, have family, friends, and we live our life. Career, profits, company, those are part of life but not life itself.
動靜能量
2009-06-04 10:22:03
Absolutely, and in no way should we try to replace life with career. No one is saying to give up your life. Only point is that your work is not responsible for either making you a human being, taking away your humanity, or supporting your humanity. Its just work. Everything else is up to you.
Goblyn27
2009-06-04 16:17:12
+2
A:
You need to stand your ground more firmly on timetables and estimates. If you're not able to sustain, say, a 2-week-per-task pace (or whatever they're pushing at) idefinitely, you should start to tell them so, and that there tasks may in fact have to slip to 3-weeks-per-task or whatever pace you feel comfortable with, with maybe the occasional 1-2-week-per-task "sprints" when its important for deadline reasons. Most reasonable employers will not have a significant problem with this, and most managers appreciate the feedback of knowing where your limits are.
In some rare cases, this can get you shitcanned, but in those circumstances, you probably had it comin down the line anyway, and this way you get out BEFORE the burnout.
GWLlosa
2009-05-26 19:22:28
+6
A:
No company is going to give you a month of paid time at work to not program so you can re-charge. Only if you are very, very lucky will they give you a month of leave time all at once. This is the real world not school, you'll probaly never get those types of breaks again until you retire.
If things are coming at you faster than you can handle, you could talk over the pace of requests with your boss and see if he can slow them down a little, but honestly this could be a career limiting move if the other programmers don't have the same issue (or at least haven't expressed it). If you are viewed as not being able to handle the pace, you will be viewed as not promotable and may be the first person selected in a layoff.
My best advice is take the leave you do get and do something that doesn't involve touching a computer during that whole time. Also stop programming at home for a few weeks and do something non-computer related. Same thing on weekends. Only you can combat burn-out. Your employer really won't because he can always hire someone else.
HLGEM
2009-05-26 19:23:14
"Only you can combat burn-out. Your employer really won't because he can alawys hire someone else." At the same time, the employer will find they have problems finding good people if they develop a reputation for burning out their employees. Some of the responsibility falls on both sides.
Frank Farmer
2009-05-26 19:32:23
In today's market, not too many employer's are really concerned that won't be able to find good employees. True the best still do care, but the truth is that probably less than 1% of us will ever work for the best companies out there because they have the least number of available jobs and fewer vacancies. And in some geographic areas there may be no companies that would be considered the best companies to work for.
HLGEM
2009-05-26 19:42:38
+1
A:
you might want to work contract to contract as a consultant, there can be "times" between work where you can recharge. You'll have more peeks and valleys in pay, but more time off, as well as the potential for more diverse projects, with the possibility of learning more new things than working for the same company day in day out.
KM
2009-05-26 19:31:09
+1
A:
Code Monkey! That's how they're treating you and that is something you need to talk to your manager about. You need to have a career path and you need to grow your skills.
Also take solace in the fact that burn out is very common among developers.
Other than that, if you feel you need to learn more you can take up small contracts on the side but be sure to run it by legal first since some companies don't allow moon lighting. This will allow you to grow and get paid, however, this is usually frowned upon and you shouldn't do it to piss your employers off, you should do it to genuinely learn stuff.
First things first though, ask to be included in the design meetings and include other developers on the project. Both those things will drive up motivation.
aleemb
2009-05-26 19:41:35
+6
A:
My strategy:
I try to accomplish something every week. I tell them what I can do this week and for the most part I can accomplish it. If it's too much quality will drop and they will be unhappy. If it's too little they will be unhappy. It's important you find your sweet spot.
Friday afternoons (and definitely weekends) are off limits. That's when I rest, learn new things, etc.
Also make sure that you know what you can do in about 8 hours and try to stick to it. Stay focused during that time and you can accomplish miracles. Don't assume your day has 24 hours, make it have only 8 hours.
Make sure they know there's a cost associated with constant interruptions, requirement changes, etc. Sometimes they will want to incur that cost, but if they know there's one, they'll think about it.
Learn to say no.
julio
2009-05-26 19:55:35
A:
Here are some ideas you might try:
- Delegate. Don't be a hero, get others to help. You'll feel better without the world on your shoulders.
- Introduce a new technology to your project as a way of keeping things interesting; the worst you could do is learn something.
- Ask if you can swap positions with someone for a few days or a week. E.g. be a tester, a support rep, or a project manager. Explain that by experiencing these other positions, you hope to gain new insights into how your work impacts others.
- Make a point to take mid-day breaks. You might just be working too hard; take it easy. Go to lunch, take a walk, talk around the water cooler, find a quite place and read or meditate.
- Get some training. Take a course off-site (or visit a conference) to improve your skills, your employer might even pay for it.
- Do something. Even if you don't like these suggestions, pick the one you hate least and try it. Inaction is the worst thing you can do.
James
2009-05-26 20:17:40
+2
A:
I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I studied computer science because it was interesting. Now, I kinda regret it because I don't think I could ever learn to handle being forced to program all day, every friggin day, until I retire, regardless of how I spend my precious little free time.
I'd suggest you find a career counselor. Some universities will even provide free career counseling to its recent graduates. A professional in these matters will likely give you better advice than random people on stackoverflow.
Cybis
2009-05-26 20:45:34
or maybe i can really work as a contractor and take 2 months off if i want to. or work hard for 1.5 to 2 years while planning vacation out far ahead (jan to may has almost no holiday for my company, for example, so i got to take some break during march or april)... and then at the end, rest for 2 months... just that someone told me it is a lot easier to get another job when you are employed rather than when you are taking a break. they think you are laid off or fired and hope to hire someone who is currently working. but that will mean start at the new job soon.
動靜能量
2009-05-26 21:05:41
Jian, as someone who has to make those hiring decisions, I can say that yes it is much more difficult to find a job if you do that. Its not so much that I will think you were fired, but if you up and left the last company after 10 months to "chill out and find yourself" how do I know that you wont do the same to me, possibly at a time where I may really need your services?
Goblyn27
2009-05-26 21:38:09
doesn't that depend on their usual length of employment with the previous companies? I mean, if we hire someone coz he is still working at another company, but he was there only for 10 months or 1 year, isn't it the same as a person who worked for a year and then rested for 1 month first?
動靜能量
2009-06-04 10:26:25
Yes, Any short period of employment is a concern in hiring, whether there is a break or not. But a volutary break is a much bigger concern. For instance, I may steal you from company A because my company is so much better. Maybe the drive to Company A sucked. Maybe someone in Company A was sexually harrassing you. Whatever the reason, its easier for you to convince me that Company A itself is the reason for the short employment. If you just take time off, well, then you are the only reason for it, which makes you a bigger risk. Not necessarily a bad candidate, but a bigger risk.
Goblyn27
2009-06-04 16:23:19
so what if he works for 3 years for the same company and take a 2 month break, and then work for 5 years and take another 2 month break? then is it better since he work longer period?
動靜能量
2009-06-06 11:34:20
+1
A:
old thread... but I have to add something:
Are you working in a sales-driven organisation?
I ask this because I was once.
We were given spec after spec, after a while we realized the specs seemed rather random, and in essence, the client was the application designer, as the usual process was totally circumvented in an attempt to keep the rather unhappy client satisfied....
Thus I found myself burned out NOT so much due to the flood of specs, but due to the randomness of these specs, and the strange whiff of something ego-related that pervaded them....
Usually we have to really work towards a specified userbase with documented UI preferences and clearly spelled out business objectives.. but in this case the client was the target market, accountant, judge, jury, executioner and boss of everyone....
It could be said that the client-company liason was too new, immature,etc... becoming an order taker rather than a salesperson/negotiator, as in the past we had smart senior people doing this role, and often had to protect clients from their own random ideas, but in this case it was more due to some ego politics over time that had soured a business relationship that, unfortunately, the health of the company itself depended on....
so be aware, this problem may be larger than it appears....
vax
2010-05-11 14:58:49
+1: *Are you working in a sales-driven organisation?* -> Such a great point. I wish I knew how this can impact a developer's life.
Jim G.
2010-09-10 19:11:07