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2566

answers:

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The certification's cost between $300-400 per exam which is pretty expensive.

I'm still a java newb but eventually I would like to get a job in the field of computer programming and I'm wondering if the Sun Java certifications would help.

Especially considering that I do not have the time or money to get a degree.

+27  A: 

In general, certifications are only "worth it" if you know they will help you get a job. If you're trying to start your programming career, my guess is that actual programming experience (rather than exam certification) will be much more valuable in the long run. My guideline is to not shell out for something like a certification unless someone is asking for it. For example, if a large portion of job listings you might apply for are asking for certification, it's a better idea than if nobody seems to care either way.

Ask employers how they feel about Java certification, and what qualifications they consider to be most important in potential hires. If you're passed over during hiring politely ask what might make you more likely to qualify for a similar position, and if they have any recommendations. If you go about it the right way, employers are generally happy to provide some useful feedback.

Overall, the most important thing you can do is code, code, code, and make sure you love doing it. Writing code because the money is good will get old fast, but writing code because you love to (and getting paid for it!) is the best you could ask for. :-)


Edit:

I also don't want to discount the helpfulness of books. Here are a smattering of good Java books that you may find useful — I suggest reading reviews (and skimming through them at a bookstore if possible) before purchasing.

As with any programming book, your perception of their usefulness will largely be a function of your understanding of any programming concepts the author may consider a prerequisite. Depending on your skill level, you may want an introductory book as well. I don't have any specific recommendations there, but if you do buy one, be sure it was published fairly recently (in the last 2-4 years, I'd suggest) so you don't miss out on recent additions to Java.

Quinn Taylor
+1 - Nice effort.
duffymo
+4  A: 

Will Java certification help you get a job? Probably not.

Will Java certification give you a broad and deep understanding of Java that will be of value to you when programming in Java? Yes.

As you are a "newb", you should expect to spend considerable time studying for the Java certification. It's no walk in the park.

Steve McLeod
"Will Java certification give you a broad and deep understanding of Java that will be of value to you when programming in Java? Yes." Not necessarily. I've interviewed people who have high scores in SCJP and could not explain what the protected keyword implies. Nothing can beat hands on programming.
talonx
SCJP is broken, you can find answers on-line. protected keyword is useless in SCJP, you should ask them what initialize first. many times bad programmers are better in SCJP, because good ones write code in a way that you know what initialize first without thinking about it. i bet they know static keyword very well.
01
+1 I also think it will not help in a direct way. But if you want to become proficient in Java I think it is interesting to know what Sun seems to think is important about Java.
Bruno Ranschaert
+1 He said that the cert would give an understanding that will be of value, and that is true. Will it be complete? No - that's what experience is for. But certs do force you to look at parts of the language and framework that you may remain ignorant of otherwise. Just because certs have been misused doesn't make them worthless.
Scott Ewers
You can find out "what Sun seems to think is important about Java" without paying to take an exam. Good Java books will help, as will following development of upcoming versions of Java (currently Java 7). Experience is the best teacher. Studying (nearly) everything there is to know about Java is time-consuming, you'll only use a fraction of what you learn, and "cramming" makes it much more likely that you'll have forgotten what you learned by the time you need it anyway. :-)
Quinn Taylor
+4  A: 

I did a degree in computer science and software engineering, but it didn't include much Java programming. So I also did the SCJP after graduating.

The irony is that the degree will get you the job but it won't teach you much about programming in Java. The certification will teach you about programming in Java but it won't get you a job.

If your goal is to get a job as a Java programmer and doing a degree is not an option for you, this is what I would do.

  • Consider doing a shorter course. I know people who did a year long course at a technical institution and it was much more practical and much cheaper than a degree. At the end of it, their programming ability was probably better than mine after having done a software engineering degree.
  • Do the Java certification. Better to have the certification and no degree than to have neither. But take your time to make sure that you get a good score.
  • Read books on Java.
  • Do plenty of programming in your spare time. Consider joining an open source project. If you're not already in a work environment then this is the best way to see source code that was written by experienced programmers.

The SCJP has never been very useful for getting job interviews or getting hired. I've looked at hundreds of job ads over the years and only a handful of them mention certification. But you need something to be able to show potential employers. And the SCJP is better than nothing.

Kevin Stembridge
I agree with you for the most part, but suggesting SCJA/SCJP as a "just in case" scenario is still a waste of several hundred dollars. The idea of taking shorter programming courses is a great idea — an instructor is much more likely to *teach* you programming than a certification. Well-respected Java books would probably be better than the certification as well, since you can use them as a reference when you get stuck on a programming problem "in real life.
Quinn Taylor
Bear in mind that the original poster's goal, as far as I understand it, is to get a job without having any previous experience. In order to do that he has to be able to show something on his CV that will get him an interview. For that purpose, the certification is better than a list of 'books I have read' (BTW very good list you posted). If you've got nothing else to put on your CV then I would definitely spend the $300. To put things into perspective, I spent $30,000 on a degree and it didn't teach me how to program well but it got me through the door for an interview.
Kevin Stembridge
+4  A: 

Speaking with my interviewer's hat on, and as someone who has spent a not inconsiderable amount of time trawling through endless applicant CVS, I can say that the Sun qualifications (and by extension, most profressional qualifications in this field) are near worthless. If I couldn't pick between two CVs and the only difference was that one had a Sun qualification, that might tip the balance. Maybe.

skaffman
The only time it tipped things over for me is if someone was coming from a Visual Basic (or Lotus Notes, or...) background but was applying for a 100% Java job, I'd be biased against them. If they had a recent Sun Java Cert, I was significantly less biased, and they'd get a 15 minute phone screening to see if I should go farther. Or, the cert never gave anyone a leg up, but it helped occasionally erase negatives elsewhere on the resume.
Dean J
+5  A: 

I don't believe that Java certifications will help you get a job.

I've got two certifications from Sun, but I've never had anyone ask about them. I don't list them on my resume anymore.

The problem is that the exams really aren't very rigorous. For the base developer's exam, you buy a book, learn the minutia of the core packages, pay your fee, and sit down in front of a computer to answer some questions. It's not too hard. It says you knew enough about the syntax on that day, but it doesn't mean you can code or design well.

They've got other exams now, but I believe they all suffer from the same problem: a lack of rigor.

Some exams are worth it. The Cisco networking certifications are very difficult to get. I'm told that one of their exams means going to a facility for the weekend. You walk into a room and have to find, diagnose, and fix a problem that's unknown. When you go home that night they come back and screw things up in a different way and ask you to do it again.

THAT'S rigor.

If you have Cisco network certification, it's a golden ticket.

Not so with Java certifications. Sorry.

duffymo
+12  A: 

I did my SCJP together with a few collegues. Most of us had a few years of java experience. To pass the exam, you have to learn a lot of the nooks and crannies of the language and the standard libraries (java.lang, java.util, java.io). To me, a lot of the stuff I learned seemed pretty obscure and not directly useful. It took us quite a few months to prepare for the exam, so it is a major undertaking.

The SCJP does not teach you "programming", it doesn't even teach good programming practices. It's only about java-the-language and a few of its libraries.

mfx
+1  A: 

I will also say: YES.

When i was starting as Java Programmer on every job interview they asked me some puzzles about java and even really big tests. Now I have SCJP and if they ask me any dumb question I say about it and they back off(i think they are not offended by it).

SCJP gave me very little, its all about little tricks, how bad written code works and compilation errors. However i think it can be very usefull in interviews(if you get annoyed by SCJP type of questions). Plus if you have SCJP at least employer know you can code in Java(and if they have weak computers you can do that without IDE).

01
A: 

Don't do a certification just for fun, only if it helps you get a raise or get a job, better position. As you're new with Java, I wouldn't do it right away at all.

+3  A: 

If you want to learn the internals of the Java language including the various intracacies etc... then the SCJP is a great way to learn.

http://ca.sun.com/training/certification/java/scjp.xml

It's deifinately a worthwhile experience and it'll put you ahead of the majority of mediocre Java programmers out there. The way in which you prepare for the exam is very important though, if you want to retain the knowledge after the exam.

I think you can learn a lot from the literature and it will help you towards get a job if you can demonstrate a deep understanding of the language. However, as mentioned here I don't believe it will improve your general design skills and use of the language. Knowing the constructs is one thing, applying them is a different matter altogether. I suggest taking a good look at a study guide, e.g.:

http://www.amazon.com/SCJP-Certified-Programmer-Java-310-065/dp/B001NEKIG8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244916386&sr=8-2

and then apply each concept you learn in the form of a simple test program. Explore this and question the very nature of the concept, read around it and it will help greatly.

I don't think the Sun Certified Web Component Developers (SCWCD) exam is worth taking personally unless you want to learn specific technologies. The SCWCD is too focused towards JSP, Servlets and tag libraries and in the real world you'll probably end up using web application frameworks. I think you can learn the lifecycle in an academic manner and then treat the tag libraries the same as you would any API.

http://ca.sun.com/training/certification/java/scwcd.xml

These are useful but I don't think a deep understanding of these (through exam prep) will help you. The SCJD is more hands on and prepares you via an assignment and essay. It may be worth doing, although I've not heard encouraging advice from those who have taken it and passed.

http://ca.sun.com/training/certification/java/scjd.xml

Jon
+1  A: 

Every course, exam, etc. raise your motivation to learn, beacause you are oriented to achieve better results. The lesser money you have to spend on courses/study, the more motivated you will be.

If you start your career in Java, passed certtification would be someting to fill blanks in your resume it that area.

Finally, you should try Java Black Belt - community site for Java & open source skills assessment. It is dedicated to technical quizzes about Java and related technologies.

cetnar
+1  A: 

Certifications are for people that have degrees or many, many years of programming experience. They are not a crutch for people who can't or do not want to get a degree.

If you want to get a programming job and be a good programmer instead of being a sh@tty coder get a degree. Heck, I came to this country with no English skills, flipping burgers; got student loans, scholarships and work full-time while studying full-time, first for learning English and then get a degree. I racked up a lot of debt in students loans, but that was the price I paid, and eventually it pays itself by increased salaries and job opportunities.

Short of being a single parent, have an expensive disease (God forbids) or having to care for someone, I don't see how someone in this country cannot have the time and money to get a degree. If that's truly your case, I'm sorry, a cert won't help. If that's not your situation, you can get the time (by sleeping less) and the money (by racking up your debt with student loans). If it were that easy, everyone would do it, no?

I want to be a brain surgeon but I don't have the time and money for a medical degree, maybe a book about how de-worm my puppy will help me

luis.espinal
A: 

I have a computer science degree. What I can tell you is that current business managers care not a whit about computer science.

What they want to see are "skills, skills, skills."

My advice to you is learn Java as best as you can.

Most employers will only care about your Java skills as well as all the acronyms (J2EE, MVC, Struts, Spring, Hibernate, Ant, Harvest, CVS, XML, XSLT, Eclipse, UML, etc. ad nauseam).

Get all those acronyms and you too may be able to compete with Java programmers from India who may not have any of those acronyms but will dutifully list each one on his resume anyway.

My degree has not helped me get a job even though I'm an excellent programmer (except right out of college and only then just barely).

On the other hand I've seen plenty of people who had no degree or programming skills get jobs simply because they had Java exeperience. That means experience with the API and some of the acronyms mentioned above. I was a superior programmer. Given a programming task I could do it faster and sometimes they couldn't even do it at all. That's partly due to my rigorous computer science education and partly due to my hard work during college and thereafter (a computer science degree without the hard work won't make you a good programmer; by hard work I mean numerous programming assignments in which you pour your heart and soul). Yet the only thing that employers care about are "skills, skills, skills."

I prefer what Einstein said: "Creativity is more important than knowledge."

That is, the ability to program is more important than any specific programming language knowledge as that knowledge can be learned. But the innate programming ability cannot be taught. It can only be developed if you are capable of it from the outset (in computer science, there were those who got it and could program, and those who could never quite get it).

But that is not how business managers in industry see it. As long as you have the "skills" (java with some knowledge of the API), they will believe one programmer is as good as the next which could not be further from the truth.

Hope that helps.

mark
A: 

I don't how much it helps in getting a job, but if you have the time and money it is always worth getting certified.

fastcodejava
A: 

What part of the world are we talking about?

In Europe, especially in Germany I've heard they really like someone with certifications applying for a job. I've also heard that English have diploma-fetish.

If you intend to work in the US for a startup, I doubt anyone will ever ask you about whether you have the SCJP or not. So it also depends on what kind of a job you are looking for. Big companies tend to like certifications, because if you need to hire a few hundred people in a year it is not possible to deeply evaluate each candidate's skills - especially, if the company is not in the IT business: banks and insurance companies come to my mind.

So I'd say if you have the time and resources get a certification and see what you can do with it. There is no simple YES or NO answer to that question.

Gabor Kulcsar