Password hashing, salt and storage of hashed values

Question

Suppose you were at liberty to decide how hashed passwords were to be stored in a DBMS. Are there obvious weaknesses in a scheme like this one?

To create the hash value stored in the DBMS, take:

• A value that is unique to the DBMS server instance as part of the salt,
• And the username as a second part of the salt,
• And create the concatenation of the salt with the actual password,
• And hash the whole string using the SHA-256 algorithm,
• And store the result in the DBMS.

This would mean that anyone wanting to come up with a collision should have to do the work separately for each user name and each DBMS server instance separately. I'd plan to keep the actual hash mechanism somewhat flexible to allow for the use of the new NIST standard hash algorithm (SHA-3) that is still being worked on.

The 'value that is unique to the DBMS server instance' need not be secret - though it wouldn't be divulged casually. The intention is to ensure that if someone uses the same password in different DBMS server instances, the recorded hashes would be different. Likewise, the user name would not be secret - just the password proper.

Would there be any advantage to having the password first and the user name and 'unique value' second, or any other permutation of the three sources of data? Or what about interleaving the strings?

Do I need to add (and record) a random salt value (per password) as well as the information above? (Advantage: the user can re-use a password and still, probably, get a different hash recorded in the database. Disadvantage: the salt has to be recorded. I suspect the advantage considerably outweighs the disadvantage.)

I checked the SO articles:

• Encrypting/Hashing plain text passwords in database
• Secure hash and salt for PHP passwords
• The necessity of hiding the salt for a hash
• Clients-side MD5 hash with time salt
• Simple password encryption

I think that the answers to these questions support my algorithm (though with a random salt, the 'unique value per server' and username components are probably less important).

Answer 1

Why not add a random salt to the password and hash that combination. Next concatenate the hash and salt to a single byte[] and store that in the db?

The advantage of a random salt is that the user is free to change it's username. The Salt doesn't have to be secret, since it's used to prevent dictionary attacks.

Answer 2

They salt just needs to be random. It can be freely known as it doesn't help an attacker. Many systems will store the plain text salt in the database in the column right next to the hashed password.

The purpose of the salt is just to ensure that if two people (User A and User B) happen to share the same password it isn't obvious. Without the random salt for each password the hash values would be the same and obvious that if the password for User A is cracked then User B must have the same password.

Answer 3

I think you are over-complicating the problem.

Start with the problem:

1. Are you trying to protect weak passwords?
2. Are you trying to mitigate against rainbow attacks?

The mechanism you propose does protect against a simple rainbow attack, cause even if user A and user B have the SAME password, the hashed password will be different. It does, seem like a rather elaborate method to be salting a password which is overly complicated.

• What happens when you migrate the DB to another server?
  • Can you change the unique, per DB value, if so then a global rainbow table can be generated, if not then you can not restore your DB.

Instead I would just add the extra column and store a proper random salt. This would protect against any kind of rainbow attack. Across multiple deployments.

However, it will not protect you against a brute force attack. So if you are trying to protect users that have crappy passwords, you will need to look elsewhere. For example if your users have 4 letter passwords, it could probably be cracked in seconds even with a salt and the newest hash algorithm.

Answer 4

I think you need to ask yourself "What are you hoping to gain by making this more complicated than just generating a random salt value and storing it?" The more complicated you make your algorithm, the more likely you are to introduce a weakness inadvertently. This will probably sound snarky no matter how I say it, but it's meant helpfully - what is so special about your app that it needs a fancy new password hashing algorithm?