Why do I need to use a popular framework?

Question

I've been a PHP developer for many years now, with many tools under my belt; tools that I've either developed myself, or free-to-use solutions that I have learned to trust.

I looked into CodeIgniter recently, and discovered that they have many classes and helper routines to aid with development, yet saw nothing in the examples that I couldn't do just as easily with my own tools. Simple things like DB abstractions, Email helpers, etc. There was some interesting code relating to routes - mapping urls to the right controllers; but even that's not particularly difficult to code yourself if you've ever written an MVC style web app with pretty urls.

Even after looking through some of the other popular frameworks, I still see nothing that would be that much of a time-saver. Even looking at the forums, I see people struggling to get the tools to work for them. I do understand how they would be more useful for junior developers, since full system design skills take a while to understand and appreciate fully.

Yet, I'm often told that I should use an off-the-shelf framework to produce my solutions, but I still remain unconvinced. What's the real benefit to someone like myself? Am I just being elitist, or is this a common opinion?

Edit: Looking at some of the answers here, should I perhaps consider packaging up my toolset as its very own framework, writing some documentation and posting tutorials? If I'm hesitant to take on other's frameworks, would opening it up and getting more eyes on it help to improve my own skills/tools?

Answer 1

You may have a point.... however I wouldn't underestimate the power of many, as an example phpBB is as far as i'm concerned the bb solution to use. Why? Because there are many, many thousands of posts on their support boards and many people using it who are knowledgeable and can help people solve problems.

Therefore the only reason in your case to use a popular framework is the many others that use it, report bugs against it, fix it and support it. It'll be tricky to get the same coverage on your own libraries.

Answer 2

One thing that you will be missing out on is all of the Validation that goes into a popular framework.

Your routines simply don't have the same exposure that the popular libraries have.

Answer 3

Frameworks have several advantages:

• You don't have to write everything. In your case, this is less of a help because you have your own framework which you have accumulated over the years.

• Frameworks provide standardized and tested ways of doing things. The more users there are of a given framework, the more edge cases that have been encountered and coded for. Your own code may, or may not, be battle hardened in the same way.

• Others can be recruited onto a project with a standard framework and have access to the documentation, examples and experience with that framework. Your own snippets may or may not be fully documented or have examples of use... but isn't much chance that others are comfortable with them initially.

EDIT:

With regards to your idea of packaging up your own framework, the benefit of cleaning it up for public consumption can be larger than the benefit of getting others to use it.

The reason is simple: you will have to re-evaluate your assumptions about each component, how they fit together and how clear each piece is to understand. Once you publish your framework, your success will be strongly dependent on how easy it is to get up and running with.

Big wins with little effort are essential for adoption (those wins will encourage people to delve further into the framework). Ruby on Rails in an example of a framework that gives such big wins with little effort, and then has hidden layers of features that would have overwhelmed someone just getting started. (The question of the quality of RoR apps is not the point, the point is about adoption speed).

After people adopt a framework, it is about the ease of continued use. Little details like consistent parameter use patterns make all the difference here. If one class has many parameters on every method, while another has setters that are expected to be called before invoking methods, you will lose users because they can't get a "feel" for what is expected in a given case without resorting to the documents.

If both ease-of-adoption and ease-of-living-with issues are addressed properly, you only have to get lucky for people to adopt your framework. If those issues are not addressed properly, even an initial interest in the framework will wane quickly. The reason is that there are many frameworks: you will need to stand out to gain the advantages of having others using your kit (as they rightfully are as wary of your framework as you are of others).

Answer 4

I think the main reason is that when you use a common framework, there are a lot of people who are instantly familiar with your product.

Apart from that I think it's most important that whatever tools you use actually get the job done. If it happens to be familiar to other people, then that's a bonus.

Answer 5

The framework code is likely to be well-tested and relatively free of bugs. By using it you save yourself time testing/maintaining your own code to do the same thing.

And any time saved is good. Laziness pays off in programming.

Answer 6

I agree you should use your own custom framework. Not only is it easier for you to understand, but it provides the ultimate in job security!

Answer 7

Three reasons I can think of immediately:

• A well-known framework will be familiar to other developers who may have to work on your project
• A well-known framework will have resources like books, discussion boards, and other experts that can be used for finding out more information
• Managers will often have a "don't reinvent the wheel" philosophy. In fact, existing solutions have probably solved the same problems that you'd discover if you create your own solution.

All of that said, there may still be a place for your own solutions. We wouldn't have so many frameworks (or scripting languages) to choose from if no one started something new.

Answer 8

As you probably know: "time is money". So by using a popular framework with a lot of helpers, a lot of code examples on web and a big community you do more in less time.

Sometimes it if ok to use frameworks because you become more productive, but in some advanced and difficult projects it may happen so that the framework stays in your way and you have to find workarounds.

I think there is no definitive answer. You should put in balance the pros and cons and take the right decision for your project.

Usually I adopt popular frameworks very fast but not in critical parts of the projects and in time I extend their usage.

Answer 9

I think that if you don't see a need to use a framework then don't.

The reason I use a framework for example Django for python or Rails for Ruby or Webforms and MVC for ASP.net is because they make it easier and faster to write applications for them. In the case of Ruby and Python not using a framework for me would make me go crazy.

If you have something that works and don't see a need to use a framework I would say stick with what you feel is best. But, I would still keep up to date with frameworks.

Answer 10

What you essentially have is your own framework. So, it isn't a time-saver FOR YOU, because you have already spent the time to develop the framework. If you didn't have that to build from, it would certainly be easier and faster to use an existing framework than to roll your own.

What you need to look at is whether or not your framework is better than other options out there, and whether your familiarity with your own code outweighs having other eyes looking at it, and other people using it in enough different ways that the likelihood of any problems being found and corrected is much higher.

Also, if your framework is so much better than everyone elses', you might consider opening yours up to the community ;)

Answer 11

Any experienced developer can build a framework -- the challenging part is convincing others that it's worth using. You'll need to create documentation and tutorials for it for those who plan to use or maintain it. You'll probably need to create a demo site to prove that its useful and actually works like it's supposed to.

That alone can be a considerable investment, not including bugs that could pop up in between. When its all said it done, it could be worth spending time learning another framework instead of making your own.

You mentioned CodeIgniter -- I personally feel like that's a pretty framework -- it doesn't get much more barebones than that.

Answer 12

I think they are more useful if you are starting from scratch and don't have the time to write your own. If you already have a codebase you developed over the years, they may be much less useful, but it may still be useful to take a look and see what they did.

For example, I am sure major game development shops are not using third-party tools, engines and frameworks, not because they are not sufficient, but they already have built their own since the 80's or whatever.

Plus, if you are using an off-the-shelf component, there is no way to exceed it in its particular area. If you need to be a market leader in a particular dimension, you should be building your own solution in that dimension, so you can lead. If you don't need this capability, using a third-party component that is just as good as yours may be a good solution as long as it is an easy transition. Time to train in the new tool and living with its idiosyncrasies may or may not be worth it though.

The other thing to consider is that if you can build something, you truly understand it. Otherwise, you don't. Now, you don't need to fully understand stuff to use them, so long as they "just work", but we all know how that goes... :)

Answer 13

There's many comments here as to the advantages of using a framework, and certainly I think in a good many cases they are perfectly correct.

HOWEVER

All frameworks come with the downside that they have a domain of problems that can be fitted into them. If your problem is well inside the scope of the domain then using a framework isn't an issue, and most of the time it's readily apparent if your problem is well outside the domain so you don't give it a thought. Issues arise when you try to force a problem into a framework that it just doesn't quite fit into or has some unusual non-standard feature - in which case you complete 90% of the code really fast then spend all the time you've saved figuring out how to bend or extend the framework so it can accomplish some obscure requirement. Because in these case your solution/extension has to plug into the framework it can often be more difficult to code than if you'd come to it independently.

In the wrong circumstances this can actually be disastrous. For example if a client asks for a project that you believe will fit into a framework solution and you quote accordingly, then after completing 90% you find the gotcha then you can be really up the creek, especially if it's some feature that the client is insistent upon (and it always is). These issues tend to arise because it is not always apparent from the word go where the gotchas might lie, particularly if you're using a framework you are less familiar with (and you have to from time to time).

This is really the same problem as arises with deploying any third party software in a project. Myself from experience I have no qualms about using frameworks or similar, but given the choice I will always go for the lightest, thinnest, wrapper I can find that will do what I need. That way I gain the advantages, whilst knowing that if issues do arise (and they are generally less likely to with a thinner wrapper) then figuring out how to work around them is likely to be simpler than learning an extensive code-base to the point where I can safely modify it.

Answer 14

Here's another reason not to create your own framework. Linus' Law - "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". In other words, the more people who use a given framework, the more solid and bug-free it is likely to be.

Have you seen how many web frameworks there are for Java? Back in the day, it was fashionable for any half-decent developer/architect to write their own custom web framework. And at the end of the day, 95% of them looked like a custom implementation of Struts (the most popular Java web framework at the time). So they basically created a Struts clone that was: 1) proprietary; and 2) not as well documented and tested.

Let's face it - writing our own customer framework is fun, but what happens next? It becomes a maintenance burden to keep up with the framework yourself (or the poor soul who replaces you). And maintaining software is much, much more costly, especially when it comes to custom frameworks. Is the company in business to solve domain problems or in the business of maintaining frameworks?

I forget who said it, but I once heard a great quote - "The first rule to creating your own framework is: don't". Somebody else has probably gone through the effort of doing so and probably done the same work you would have done. Save yourself the time, effort, and testing.

Answer 15

I would go against the grain here, and say, you should use your own custom framework, If the software you are building is the core of your business. As Joel would say, "Find the dependencies - and eliminate them". If you are just putting up a little website for your company, and you business isn't maintaining websites, then go ahead and use a framework. But when that website is your business, then you shouldn't depend on a framework from somebody else to let you get the job done.

Answer 16

Can you solve the problems you are given have with your code faster and more reliably than public frameworks?

If yes, then keep using your own.

If no, then find the framework that does a better job and run with it for that project.

It all comes down to which codebase gets the job done better(for the value of better given by the client. ;) )

Answer 17

Advantages are that it's already written and tested by multiple people therefore less likely to be bug prone. Disadvantages are that it's not built specifically for your application and therefore will most likely perform worse.

All in all, I can't really see much reason to use one considering you already have your own...although it may be worth releasing that open source so others are able to bug check and recommend improvements.

Answer 18

Disadvantages.

Most frame works are not object orientated. (code igniter does show some promiss)

Most of the code is done via includes. trying to track down the problem is like pulling on a thread on a sweater, and having to unravel the entire garment to fully understand the creation.

Most frame works have poorly written documentation.

Most frame works try to do many many many things.

I find from my experience developing with frame works that it takes a good 3-6 months to get on top of the code base. And its only after that period of time that you will find out weather you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Given that most php projects want to be finished before that period has elapsed, it will cost employers more to get any project using a big "frame work" to fruition.

Many of the php Frame works were written for php 4, and were written in a different enviroment. They have been extended greatly, but are showing their origins. The use of global constraints is particularly prevalent. I am hoping that php 6 puts most of them to death. Code igniter escapes most of this, but it is new, and has object orientated parts.

Some frame works have written code that is not needed, and causes problems.. eg: CAKE has a most excellent model view controller, but its session handling is a disaster. Unfortunately frame works are not written in a modular way. Often its an all or nothing option.

MOst programers "hack" the frame work to get it to do what they want. This leaves future programers sractching their heads. It also makes "upgrading" the frame work a impossibility.

I have yet to see a frame work that implements unit testing. (how do you know that you have not broken it).

give me a well written object any time. At least them you know the scope right off the bat.