Joomla, Drupal, or DotNetNuke?

Question

I'm in the process of starting my own podcasting website. I'm trying to find a good cms to use. At work, I'm a .Net developer and we are starting to use DNN for some small projects around the office. I'd like the new business to be fully open source but it might be nice to use Dnn cause I will already have some experience with it from work. I'm worried that I'll be spreading myself too thin learning php/Lamp at home and .net at work. What does everyone recommend?

Answer 1

As a PHP developer I have found Joomla! to be incredibly easy to manipulate and work with. We have a decent size site (roughly 10,000 pages) and it has been rock solid so far. I haven't used DNN but I definitely like Joomla! better than Drupal. I found Drupal to be quite a bit less intuitive and certainly no less functional.

If you go the Joomla! route I think you will find that it has a very large user base and the community is very engaged. I also found a book called "Joomla! - A user's guide" by Barrie M. North to be helpful with understanding Jooma's basic infrastructure and getting a site up and running (http://snurl.com/ayxc0).

• Nicholas

Answer 2

I'm not very familiar with the other 2 but if I was in your shoes, I'd strongly consider using DNN as it is very popular among the dev community. There are literally thousands of custom modules available, many of them free on sites like snowcovered. The skinning ability it has allows you to customize how it looks. Since youre a developer, you'll easily be able to hit the ground running writing your own custom modules.

Also, you'll find many dnn developers so support along the way will be available to you.

Answer 3

I've heard amazing things about mojoPortal.
It's a fully open source .net CMS.

See: http://www.mojoportal.com/

Answer 4

I must admit that I do not know DNN, but I have played a bit around with Joomla!, and even more with Drupal. I will recommend Drupal, as I find it more flexible and robust than Joomla! Drupal comes with a learning curve, but the newly released book "Using Drupal" will help you understand the basic concepts. It covers several actual user cases, not your case, but I am sure you will find it useful, as the concepts described in this book is applicable for many Drupal modules.

Answer 5

I advise running, not walking, away from Joomla. It is a very restrictive system, and the mostly pay-to-play nature of the developer community is a major turnoff.

To get tagging on content, I'd have had to replace the core content module with a third-party, commercial plugin. Not extend, but replace entirely.

This was with the 1.0 version. We took a look at 1.5 beta, but it didn't look like things were getting much better with that. We went with Drupal instead, and it was a good choice. Just about every bit of Drupal's functionality - login form, admin interface, etc. - can be extended without having to hack core code - a true blessing when it comes to upgrades.

Answer 6

As a ASP.NET developer I recommend Joomla... It's a whole lot easier to implement and develop for than DNN.

1. It's cheap to host.
2. It's easy to implement. A friend of mine has successfully implemented several Joomla websites knowing absolutely nothing about PHP or programming.
3. The Joomla API is easy as hell to learn. Easy enough my friend that is mentioned above has been able to add forms and other somewhat complex items to his site.
4. Plenty of community support

Answer 7

I'm a PHP developer with an ASP.NET background, and I've used both DNN (over 12 months ago) and Joomla! (currently). I'm afraid I can't speak to Drupal.

I found both DNN and Joomla! fairly easy to set up. PHP knowledge had little, if any, impact on the installation of the Joomla 1.5 site I set up for our local user group.

I disagree with ceejayoz's assessment of the Joomla! developer community being "pay-to-play" -- the site I set up at www.frontrangephp.org, while not being the most attractive thing on the Net, is definitely functional with a minimum of extensions (Agora forum, a sitemap generator, a content-inclusion extension and a view extension)...all of which were free. There are commercial extensions, obviously, but that is not exclusive to the Joomla! community.

There are some excellent free extensions out there; Community Builder ( http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/210/details ) comes to mind, as well as the aforementioned Agora forums ( http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/communication/forum/1891/details ).

The one disadvantage I have found between the two is simple layout functionality: with DNN I found it trivial to lay out pages pretty much how I wanted. In Joomla! it isn't quite as simple -- I thought setting up menus was a bit cumbersome -- but otherwise I think you could have the same layout in either CMS. If your focus is on simply hosting content -- and not frequently adding new sections -- then Joomla! is not really at a disadvantage, IMO.

I'd suggest trying out Joomla! at home (use WAMP to get your environment up and running quickly) to get a feel for the installation and operation of things. If you can get a basic Joomla! site up and running in 30 minutes or less (less than 15 is probably typical) then you should have no concerns about being able to operate a functional site with a variety of extensions for your office.

Answer 8

I've used both Joomla and Drupal. I no longer use Joomla because Drupal is just so much more flexible and powerful and Joomla really did give me headaches sometimes. I've worked on Drupal sites with budgets in the millions of dollars.

A key factor to consider when choosing an Open Source project is how active the development community is.

Make a comparison between the development history of both these projects over the last two years. Joomla has managed to get from 1.1x to 1.5x while Drupal has moved from 4.7 to 6.9 while I have been using it over this period. These upgrades represent an impressive feature list.

While some projects adopt a conservative approach to new releases this is not true with Joomla. There's currently no upgrade path from 1.1 to 1.5. Joomla lead developers developers negated this by calling the upgrade a "migrate".

Drupal provides good documentation and a clear upgrade path each time a major upgrade is released. The developer community is very active.

You might also gain some information by checking the outstanding development issues of both projects and note how long these take to get resolved.

Hope that helps!

Answer 9

You are right to be wary of spreading yourself too thin. All sorts of CMS systems (Wordpress, even) will probably be fine for what you want. Base your choice moreso on your future direction than today's immediate need. It's all experience - which one do you want to be better at?

Answer 10

I was assigned to develop my company site with Joomla! as the CMS. When I read that Joomla! is very tough and restrictive blah blah compared to Drupal here in this forum, I got really scared. But now after a few days, I am building my own components, modules and plugins in Joomla! without much of a problem.

I dont have any knowledge about Drupal's architecture (and I haven't even heard of dotnetnuke) but according to me, development in Joomla! is not so bad and tough as others say.

Answer 11

If you want to use DNN (DotNetNuke) and would like to extend it but aren't interested in setting up a VisualStudios development environment, check out OpenWebStudio. It let you create ad-on modules for DNN without writing .NET code. You can manipulate user profiles, develop AJAX interfaces, handle forms, display grid view of database data, and integrate with SalesForce.com. OpenWebStudio.com. (Full disclosure, I helped develop OpenWebStudio). It free and open source just like DNN.

Answer 12

This is an amazing thread and I got here quite late.

I must say that I spent some time evaluating Joomla and DNN, and ended up developing www.dvds4thesat.com in DNN. And then I did it's brother, www.sattutorinabox.com in DNN as well, which is basically an export.

The thing that no one has mentioned (I think) is that DNN uses a totally different way to compose pages than Joomla. In DNN pages really do consist of modules--I mean, they physically show up on the page in a little square--and the same module can exist on multiple pages (pointing to the same data if you like, or different data... quite OO). In Joomla, to get that modern, boxy look, you just make a big page with HTML using tables or DIVs or whatever.

Making modules in DNN is a cinch, and the API is absolutely brilliant. I wish my code were that well organized. I ended up writing two modules just for fun, one to run web services accessing DNN basics and another as a wrapper for SWFObject.

One thing that DNN has that I could not find in Joomla is the UDT or User-defined Table. I thought that CMS are actually all about that, but apparently it's a feature: the ability to define some data, put XSL for the display of it, and then define detail pages as well. Brilliant stuff.

Anyway, I have no real point about Joomla but I did find that to do just about anything, I felt (perhaps incorrectly) that I was hacking into the core. The PHP code I did modify was some of the worst code I've ever seen, anywhere, in any language. And certain small changes you can make to a site in a normal way can break the site completely (although I don't remember what the case was that brought me to this conclusion, but it happened).

And I thought DNN was just great in so many ways, but 1) it depends on your needs 2) a lot of people like Umbraco, but is it just a fringe thing? I could never figure it out 3) a lot of people like Drupal. I never checked it out at all.

Answer 13

I'm a .NET developer by day as well and would definitely recommend going the Drupal route. I spent some time looking into both Drupal and Joomla about a year ago and was happy with the Drupal choice. I have never done anything with DNN though, mostly because I've never heard anything positive about it and any site I see built with it is incredibly ugly. Why choose Drupal?

• It'll be much easier/cheaper to host than DNN.
• You'll learn a new language/platform, expanding your overall knowledge base and skill set.
• You really don't have to know much PHP, so you can ease into the PHP learning curve.
• Drupal community is stronger than Joomla. I always got answers to Drupal questions in their forum. I never got answers in the Joomla forum.
• Drupal is easier to get started with.
• Easiest to integrate with another app. My use case was adding a brochure-ware/blog/forum/help site onto an existing application. Drupal was extensible enough to rather easily build a single-sign on solution where the existing application drove the authentication.

Now, I will say their are some major head-banging moments coming up to speed on Drupal. It makes hard things easy and easy things hard at times. But, with the power of google and the community, those can usually be overcome.

Answer 14

I'm going to weight in on the discussion since there hasn't been any DNN representation. I have reposted and modified this from a previous SO answer.

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I've been working in my current role now for 6 months and develop almost exclusively in DNN. Prior to this gig, I had no DNN experience. So this will give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Advantages

DNN was really easy to learn. The admin interface is fairly intuitive and the code base is extremely consistent. I've rarely needed to refer to the DNN book on my desk (usually just for the esoteric details.)

The hydrator pattern that DNN uses for object creation out of the DB is pretty slick and works well. It also forces you to keep your object properties succinct with your sprocs/queries, so confusion is kept to a minimum.

There are tons of 3rd party Module developers. And the modules are usually pretty cheap. So you can save money utilizing these. (SnowCovered & DNN Market Place)

Upgrades are super easy on DNN. I'm in the process of testing a push up to 4.9.4 and have had very few problems.

The DNN team is very strict about security. They are prompt with security patches and will not release a build with known vulnerabilities.

Disadvantages

One thing that I've noticed and we've not been able to figure out why, but DNN will just drop it's skins from time to time. There's no errors, or apparent reasons. It just doesn't apply them and won't do so until the server is restart.

Documentation is brutal. If you're going to use DNN, get a book on it. It's easy enough without the book, but when you need reference material there is NONE to be found that is at all helpful.

Bloat is currently an issue with DNN and nothing is seemingly being done about it.

Answer 15

Looks like im late to answer this thread. I used to swear by Joomla, simply because of its simplicity and it just felt so much more solid than Drupal. Now, however, my programming skills have increased tenfold and I find Drupal to be the better choice for developers who like to get their hands dirty with coding. With Joomla, you have to Take what you're Given with modules and components and plugins and son on, but with Drupal, it's so easy to change small details here and there.

My website, http://www.coldcast.co.uk/ is built using Drupal and I wont ever reconsider.

Summary Joomla for beginners. Drupal for developers.

Thanks, Reece.

Answer 16

I have posted a while ago, my overview with dotnetnuke and joomla - Here is a link to the blog I wrote about Joomla and DotNetNuke - and there is a pdf / flash overview too which needs updating but we will get to that soon.

Since that time, we have been working with both platforms more regularly, and I'm not sure if it's the devil you know compared to the one you don't that makes me stay with DNN but I just can't get as really serious about Joomla.

We do site management for people who have had joomla sites setup and can't work them out and I have only had one instance in all my years where someone could not work something out, but this lady really was not one who should have owned a computer, or email if you get my drift.

Anyway - we have both linux and windows infrastructure and my son who is a linux developer, and his mates who are linux guys still seem to prefer dnn compared to joomla but he's never really given me a reason except that when working with the non technical person, it's really easy to explain how to manage the site. It could also be because we have alot of support behind the product inhouse whereas with joomla while we can make it do alot, we can't get it to really shine like we can with DNN.

I think what people need to be is objective. We have also looked at kentico, silverlight, mambo, xoops and wordpress as options, but what I love about DNN is the scaleability, the ability to use it for what it is - NOT a CMS - but a framework that is built on .NET infrastructure that has been so badly missing from linux platforms - if you take MONO as an example. (I have heard someone did almost get a compiled build of DNN running on MONO but have not seen it and cannot comment any further on it) but there are very accomplished developers who work with both php and .net and use dotnetnuke as their preferred solution for many projects.

As for bloat in DNN - We have a very nice compiled version we've been working with and it removes thousands of unnecessary requests from the db, particularly in administration mode, which is when the load seems to be the highest. Having said that - dnn 5.1.1 has many improvements. In an ideal world, a perfect dn would be fantastic, but I have also seen issues with other applications that I see cause grief, and that is the nature of using open source.

Nina Meiers

Answer 17

DNN just creates horrible messy dotnet code. Joomla - I started out with this, but just hated the way it works, now I work with Drupal.

It's not always easy, but it's so extendible. However with it sometimes the most simplest jobs to take an awful lot of fuss to get them how you want them.

Tunstall Social Network - built in Drupal

Answer 18

I never claim to be an expert on anything, but I will state my opinion that varies from the bunch above. When I chose a CMS, I found Joomla was my best fit. I think my first impression psychologically helped. Its menu system is like lots of software such as Word or FrameMaker where Drupal's is more like a directory website. That alone makes an easier learning curve because they excelled in making a very easy to navigate menu in the backend.

Joomla's popularity caused a soar in components etc because of this. I have found Drupal not to provide the look I want, even though I handcraft templates and edit my own modules.

But the truth in all of this is that CMS systems can be custimized with source code (PHP, Javascript, CSS and XML) to arrange the website to look and function as desired.

Mr.Elchuk

Answer 19

Coming from a "deploy, add some content, go home same day" I vote for DNN. Keep in mind that I have almost no web programming experience and no computer programming experience (except a little vb scripting). With additional time, I may like Joomla better.

Drupal I was able to get a prebuilt version (Virtual Machine) up and running quickly. But adding content was not intuitive. The Drupal VM (http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/1045) is easy to get running. You can use VMWare player if you don't have VMWare server.

I have not tried installing Joomla but I have played around with the demo site for about 15 min. The ability to create articles was much easier than Drupal, however I did not figure out how to make different pages easily. With some additional time I am sure I could figure it out. One thing I did like was the ability to easy see all the content (aka articles) of the site in a complete listing and easily select one to edit/modify/delete. For Joomla check out the demo site (http://demo.joomla.org).

I have some experience with Linux so I think installing both from scratch would probably be fairly easy, especially if installing LAMP from scratch. XAMPP is a nice LAMP package that also comes with myPHPadmin for making easier managemet of MY SQL admin, while installing all the other necessary options. (http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html)

DDN took me a few times to get it installed and running, primary related to getting MS SQL setup properly (I used the Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express for database admin). However, once installed, creating pages, adding content, adding skins, adding modules was very easy. As for DNN, you just have to install it and go. Of course if you are trying to go the entirely free route, DNN is out of the question cause you need at least a licensed windows box (server recommended). You can use SQL Express if you don't have full version of MS SQL.

However, everyones needs are not the same and therefore I think that 1) others opinions should be taken with a grain of salt 2) try them all out for yourself.

The learing curve (for me) for DNN was very, very small. Joomla seems a little harder. Drupal, I spent several hours playing around with it and didn't get much done. That's my two cents. If you are looking for something to install quickly and allow others (or yourself) to easily edit content, my vote would be for DNN.

Answer 20

You can compare them on your own at CmsMatrix.

Answer 21

Another vote here for Drupal instead of Joomla.

Answer 22

Hi there,

Omg, I've worked with all three of these CMS systems, and to be honest, they are all somewhat dated systems, Joomla (and it's older Mambo) was just plain exhausting to develop websites for, I've developed a Multi-lingual Multi-Site corporate site with Drupal 4 (large public company with intranet and public websites on drupal), and while much better than Joomla, it still leaves a lot to be desired, theming, administration, aswell as module construction.

Now I've been working with DNN for the past 8 Months, such an archaic way of doing things. Slow to develop for, poor performance, unreliable. DNN spits out its own html and js, even for the frontend, it's OOTB experience is ghastly, admin horrid.

Perhaps you should start looking at some more modern CMS's, such as Modx, I've introduced some Joomla developers to modx and well, they cant believe how easy it can be. Or for .Net Umbraco makes DNN look like a toy that no one wants to play with anymore, worked with all of these CMS's on various size projects, and modx or umbraco stand out for general website construction. Also Sitefinity is nice.