Transitioning from "Web" into "Application" Development

Question

I realize this comes at an enormous risk of being branded "subjective" and "discussion-based", but you don't have to argue with anyone, or me. I'd just like honest answers to the question. So first, the question:

In your experience, is it feasible to say I could find a job as a java or other "non-web" language/system developer without a CS degree?

A little background : I am a LAMP(PP) Developer, and have been working with the web world for the past two years or so, and am about 90% self-taught. [edit] I have been working part-time/freelance in html/css/javascript for about 7 years, and full-time salary doing php/perl for the past 2 years, for clarification. [/edit] A friend of mine who does a lot of Java has convinced me to start learning it, and I'm starting to be curious about my potential employability in a "non-web" environment. So far I've worked for marketing firms and doing application development for a web-based system, so having a Bachelor's degree in a non-related field (music) hasn't held me back yet.

Acceptable format for non-subjective answers :
"Our company does not require a specific degree, if you have a few years of employment history and can prove you know programming you can get a job"
-or-
"With the economy being the way it is, the only way to ensure you'll get past the first level of screening is to have an extensive relevant education"

Answer 1

Yes you can (otherwise I would not have a job). If you can show that you know the stuff, many companies will not bother too much about formal degrees. After all, they (should) hire people because they have certain skills, not because they acquired those skills in a specific manner. Studying at a university is one way, working with programming in practice is another.

Now, I think (guessing here, given my background) that you would learn things in the university that you will not typically pickup from being an autodidact, and that might still be useful when working as a programmer, but I would believe that the more time you have spent working on actual software that has been delivered to (hopefully happy) customers, the less the lack of formal degrees will matter.

Answer 2

My experience has always led me to evaluate past evidence. This means what is there to show what you have achieved. If you are entering a new technology, it will be a while before you will achieve this which means you may have to re-start at the bottom. Do you want to do that? If you are prepared to offer all your skills to a new job (including learning new languages), that would be better. In this way you become incrementally more valuable, irrespective of whether you have a degree or not.

Answer 3

It's a mindshift for sure, but I don't see any reason why you can't make the transition. A good programmer is a good programmer regardless of the language they're using. I've known guys that write excellent java code and easily make the transition to javascript or ruby. Where you might come unstuck is the fundamentals of computer science which is what you really get from the formal education. Things like pointers, memory management, threading etc are things that I tend to find "self taught" developers are usually not so strong in, but there's no reason you can't learn these things and if you're able to prove to prospective employers that you have a good grasp of the concepts and can prove you know how to use them then I don't think you'll have too much trouble.

Answer 4

In your case you should use your music degree as an advantage and look to land your first application programming job in a company doing music-related application development. Your music degree coupled with programming experience of any kind will certainly open some doors.

You may need to take an initial cut in pay to make the transition, though.

Answer 5

Speaking for my own experience and my country Switzerland: I started with an internal education in a big company and do not have a degree in CS up to now, some 23 years later. I had difficulties finding a job in the 2 years following the burst of the internet bubble, which I was able to breach being self-employed and with some unemployment money from the government.

Most big companies here do not care about degrees, unless you want to pursue a carrier. But then you need an MBA, not CS.

There is one exception, though, which are the consulting companies. They sell their services proportionally to the numbers of Doctors they have in the team, so no chance - unless you have connections.

Small companies here know that they have to invest for somebody to know the tools and languages they use - so if they are in need, they will hire you even with little experience in the exact field.

It might not harm to get some stuff done with the tools you would prefer to work with, but

• good employers know that learning yet another language is not the hard part
• work experience outweighs private experience

Go for it. Don't quit your dayjob and start looking around. After a few years experience will for sure outweigh education on the job market.

If you have the chance to visit some classes on the side, you can only benefit though. Personally.

Answer 6

In my experience, it pretty much depends on where you want to work, and in some cases, how far up the management ladder you want to go.

Some places I've worked don't really care if you have a degree or not. In fact, in one place I worked it was almost a detriment to have a degree, since much of management didn't have degrees.

Other places I've worked have required a "related" degree. In at least one case I was personally involved with, that was to their detriment, because a friend of mine was much better and more knowledgeable than any of the developers there, and looking for a new job, but they wouldn't even talk to her since she didn't have a degree.

Finally, for some employers, it's just whether you have a degree or not, and your major is not important. I know one guy doing Java development, and his degree is in history. Also, I work in a science facility, and lots of people here have degrees in a relevant science, and have little or no formal software development education.

Answer 7

I'm mostly self-taught, and in my career, I have transitioned from VB to C++/MFC to "classic" ASP to Java, and that doesn't even scratch the surface of all the ancillary technologies I had to learn to get my job done. I think all developers should expect to pick up new skills. It just comes with the job.

I think you're making an odd distinction between "Web" and "Application" development. Practically all of my Java work has involved building web sites, and the same is probably true for C#/.NET developers as well. As a LAMP guy, you already have a few key employable skills -- you know Linux, you understand (or should understand) the TCP/IP stack, how HTTP works, etc. And you know how to put together an attractive-looking interface, which is a rarer skill than you might think. You can leverage all these skills as you make the transition to Java/.NET/Whatever.

As for the music degree, don't sweat it. Some of the best programmers I've ever worked with have been musicians. I don't have a CS degree, and it hasn't slowed me down much. A certification might help get you in the door at some companies, but before that try a pet project or two in Java and see where it takes you.