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417

answers:

7
+2  A: 

As usual Virtual Economy on wikipedia is a good starting point. Also "mmorpg economics" on google will be helpful. But what I noticed is that all the efforts that most of what you list somehow try to artificially extract money out of the game, via taxation or other means. This can easily be viewed as "unfair" only one of the items that you denote gives an incentive to spend money.

Not having played the game I can't tell what methods would be feasible, but it all comes down to balancing the flow of resources into the game with what is spent. This is a piece about Ultima online during its first year describing some of the things that happened and the measures taken to remidiate problems with the economic cycle.

-- Edit: added Ultima Online Link

Harald Scheirich
Thank you. The Wikipedia article is good, the linked article about Mudflation, too. It would be great if you could find the text about "Ultima online".
Very interesting article, thanks! :)
I think I shouldn't drain money out of the game by force. Instead, I should give the player more possibilities to spend it. Is this what you want to say in the first paragraph?
Think of it partially as an economic problem but also as a problem in game design. You want players to get rid of some of their money and not hord it. It will always feel better if they have incentives to spend it as opposed to the money being removed
Harald Scheirich
+7  A: 
chaos
+1 for the mentioning of MUD as classic example of an online economy!
edosoft
Thank you very much. You helped me alot. :) So the best approach is to create temporary advantages and prestige effects which are very expensive, right?
I think that's the most positive direction to start in, though it'll of course remain to be seen whether it can be made to solve your problems. The thing I'd most caution you against is setting up a situation where people's perception becomes that if they're successful at the game, the result of that will be the game's developers seeing them as a problem and punishing them.
chaos
@chaos: Thanks, that could really be a problem. I'll be cautious and try to prevent this.But what alternatives are there if I don't want to have a faucet-drain economy? This would be quite complex, wouldn't it? I would have to create a state, players etc. which give the money in again!?
Yeah, you'd have to keep track of all your resources and manage how they re-enter the system. Making a recirculating economy is *hard* and isn't necessarily worth it for every game, but it deserves to be considered, even if the consideration halts at an abrupt "no, that's not going to work for my application".
chaos
Although all spendings leave the system, I log them. So I created a model for my economy: http://i26.tinypic.com/2unvvrp.png Is this what you mean? Based on the spendings of one season, I calculate the payments which enter the system in the next season. Is this correct?
+2  A: 

It would help if you mention how money is being 'recirculated' in your MMORPG.

Your game balance depends on whether you have any central NPC (non player character) or not. An NPC could be a bot, a real player or a bank/government. Also one of your goal should be - keep it simple.

Has a central NPC

  • All goes back to the central agency IF it creates/controls money supply.
  • Auctions assets. But it comes with complexities. Hey you can auction them for REAL MONEY, the one who buys them starts from where the other person left.
  • In Monopoly it either goes to bank on bank owned properties or goes to players on player owned properties.

No central NPC

  • The consummated part is lost and left overs stay there to be worked upon by other players. (AOE or UT)
  • If its a zero sum game, then advantage/bonus could be given to other players. It may be distributed in proportion to their wealth as compared to the entire economy.

Comments on your approaches

  1. Don't decay values directly but introduce a factor like inflation that does it. Anything that player 'earns' should never be decayed.
  2. Taxes might make things complex, keep it simple.
  3. That's kinda bot I discussed above.
  4. Yeah its good, players get recirculated money and they can buy new stuff.
  5. No, this might be a slap on game players. They might get irritated by the fact that their efforts are not yielding expected gains.
  6. You might loose some extremely loyal players. These are the players which pay you money.
  7. and 9. No, please don't directly control game elements. see 5.

To sum up, I'd say keep it simple, always reward people don't impose conditions. Surprise them but don't shock them.

Arpit Tambi
Thank you very much. All spendings/costs leave the system. They're just lost. Here's a simple model: http://i26.tinypic.com/2unvvrp.png
I think we have some kind of central NPC (non player character) here. Since money comes from and goes into 'thin air', then it should be fine. In real life we have scarcity of gold/materials so that defines the value of any currency. You may want to control excessive money supply, that can be attained easily by adding more and more upgrades/value-add-ons. But then again these add-ons would enable players to more quickly accumulate money. Sure players could spend their fortunes on luxury cars/homes/dates. Wealth of deleted teams should ideally be 'lost' but you can auction them.
Arpit Tambi
Yes, wealth of deleted teams is lost in my case. When players end their career earlier, teams must buy new players earlier. So more money is needed. Right? So I can let the players end their careers at the age of 30 instead of 38 and the market improves. Is this correct?
A market/economy represents the total money of all teams at any given instance. This sum should be huge enough and events like players ending careers shouldn't affect it significantly. I think in your case buy and selling of stuff/players should balance the economy. You can later think of other tricks that make game more enjoyable and more balanced.
Arpit Tambi
See this - http://www.flyingscythemonkey.com/photogallery/Economic%20Theory%20and%20MMOGs.ppt .Yes demand and supply should solve your problem but do remember that your main objective is to make game more enjoyable and addictive.
Arpit Tambi
So you think that the players will balance the economy simply by buying and selling? In my economy, there are fixed prices. So do I need prices which are tied demand and supply? Yes, my main objective is to make a game more enjoyable. But to achieve this, I need a stable economy, don't I? What keeps an economy stable - fixed prices or a demand-and-supply-market?
A stable economy means inflows=outflows. A growing economy means inflows>outflows. In real life, prices are tied to demand and supply but if you apply that in your game, it might make things complex and turn off your users. I'd suggest find out whether you have greater money inflows or greater money outflows, and then accordingly add more artificial buying or selling. This should balance your game.
Arpit Tambi
Yes keep the prices fixed but manipulate buying and selling within game. Add stuff if inflows are higher or remove stuff if outflow is higher.
Arpit Tambi
+2  A: 

Drain in real-life tends to occur naturally as you accumulate wealth. In theory as your wealth goes up so does your drain because:

  • Excessive wealth encourages waste. You have too many assets to manage effectively.
  • Hiring people to manage waste is a drain in itself.
  • High wealth makes you a better target for theft, embezzlement, fraud and lawsuits.
  • Hiring security/lawyers to protect against the above is itself a drain.
  • High wealth and luxury items attract more taxes.
  • Markup on luxury items often grows out of proportion to the items actual production costs.
  • Expensive items tend to have high storage, maintenance and running costs.

You could simulate the above "balance" simply by finding realistic ways to increase costs as wealth goes up.

In truth most "value" in a virtual economy is prestige. Having millions of dollars isn't worth much if nobody cares and you can't buy anything that would make them care.

If wealth in your game represents little more than your "score", then any kind of drain is silly. Very few games artificially reduce your score.

SpliFF
Very good answer. Thank you. :) "In truth most "value" in a virtual economy is prestige. Having millions of dollars isn't worth much if nobody cares and you can't buy anything that would make them care." Important sentence.
If I want to simulate the balance: How do I measure wealth? Just the sum of the capital of all teams? If this increases, I simply augment prices? Wealth (the capital of a team) is included in the score. Do you think that it's better to remove the capital from the score calculation so that wasting money doesn't mean a lower score?
At it's most basic level "wealth" is the ability to perform "work". You need to decide whether accumulating the ability to have work done is a measure of skill (the generally accepted meaning of "score"). Most MUD's distinguish your wealth (gold) from your score (XP). You should consider whether success in your game is measured by the ability to accumulate wealth. "Wasting money" is a very non-specific concept so I couldn't even touch that without understanding waste in terms of your game. It's like the old saying: "One mans trash is another mans treasure".
SpliFF
In my game, "wealth" and "score" are two different things. Nobody can see how much money you have. So the prestige effects is based on your score. Does this affect the problems of the economy in my game?
Your points are interesting, but frankly a bit cynical. One thing that also explains higher "drains" of wealth in real life is the concept of marginal utility.
kyoryu
A: 

No one in here will be able to give you the 'best' answer, because the best answer is learn economics.

I recommend a few basic courses in economics; barring that, I provide you with this:

The problem is, your basic underlying understanding of economics is flawed. That is:

  • The recirculated quantity has to grow from season to season in order to keep the game interesting.
  • Money mustn't be distributed unfairly: It can't be permitted that 1% of the teams own 20% of the money.

First, why must there be quantity inflation? Why is that what is needed to keep the economy growing?

Take a real life example: a sufficiently rare commodity (Gold) doesn't grow very much at all, because there's only so much of it in the world. Yet Gold still buys the same amount today that it bought in 1905. There has been no price inflation in terms of Gold -- it has remained constant and stable.

Your challenge is to create a sufficiently rare commodity that players will see inherent value in, and will use that as both a means (digging it up to get other valuable stuff like armor) and an end (can be used to barter in of itself).

Regarding the second point:

Why will a 'fair' distribution of money be equitable? If the top 1 percent are doing 20% of the economic activity, then the market is simply reflecting what is actually happening. That's also true in the Real World. The guy that lives next to you probably doesn't have the same economic output you do, since your skills are entirely different. A factory worker doesn't have the same economic impact that a software developer does, and the wages reflect that. Why would an in game world be different?

George Stocker
Thank you. [POINT1] If you have a look at my model (http://i26.tinypic.com/2unvvrp.png), you can see how money leaves and enters the system. If all teams together spend 100 billions in one season and exactly the same amount enters the system in the next season, that's boring, isn't it? Nothing changes then. [POINT2] Totally correct. I don't want to create a communistic system. I don't want all players to have the same amount of money. But the disparities shouldn't become to big, should they?
The disparities aren't yours to control. In a truly free market system, people make money according to the value the bring to the economy. You will always have players that have an infinite (or near infinite) amount of time to spend in the game. Their acquisition of ingame wealth is a natural result of that. If you try to address perceived 'imbalances', you're just going to cause players to believe that their work has no effect, and they'll stop working as hard, and the entire economy suffers.
George Stocker
But I have no free market I think. I have no "Supply and demand" system in the game. So I have to implement it to solve all the problems, right? (See additional question/edit on the top of the site)
Anywhere you have goods that are exchange-able for time or money, you have a market economy. The 'supply' is either the goods or the money; the demand is result of the relative value of that good. No simple equation will help your problem until you understand the underlying economic forces at work.
George Stocker
A: 

I play the hattrick game for several years. A few questions one needs to ask.

What's the purpose of money in the game? 1) Limiting all users somehow to ensure that they compete with the same resources. 2) Just like real world, allowing better exchange of production.

In this particular game, a big part of team growth is training. You have a limited capacity for it and you generally produce about 2 times more than you want to keep (you train two sets of players each week) - so every now and then, you sell your product (i.e. striker) and purchase somebody else's product (defender). Money just makes it easier than having to barter players.

There are some more or less fixed costs, and more or less fixed income. Before implementing any "approaches", we should agree on what the problem is - and to start there, I don't think that more money has to be recirculating to make the game interesting. Way up in hattrick is not "more money", but planned team development, mostly through training. Having less money in circulation means that the general price level will be lower for players - but that doesn't affect your power to swap training product surplus with another manager. The only impact is that for higher-level teams where player wages become a significant factor, life is tougher... and that makes the game more interesting because a new user will catch up with the teams above quicker.

Viktor

Viktor U.
+1  A: 

All game economies will self regulate. They just probably won't self-regulate the way you want them to.

What people usually mean when they talk about regulating economies in games is preventing cash inflation. While you can talk about sinks and faucets (and there's a lot of good information in those discussions), the first thing you need to talk about is what the value of your currency is - or, more accurately, what its utility is.

The two problems that tend to tear apart game economies are:

  1. Higher "level" players get exponentially more income (in terms of pure cash from the system) than lower level players.
  2. Cash is of limited use at higher levels.

The combination of these two is deadly. The best thing you can do for a game is to ensure that you currency has actual utility to the players, and has effectively infinite utility to high level players. If you look back at Diablo II, gambling was a very smart (though insufficient) form of this - it could suck up infinite amounts of money very quickly.

If I was designing an economy for a game, I'd start with the assumption that all players generate a roughly equivalent amount of "cash" per hour. However, higher level players can make more cash by selling their goods to lower level players, giving both a reason for social interaction as well as dampening the cash inflow into the game.

kyoryu
Thank you very much. Problem #2 is definitely one which I have, too. But how could you prevent it? I think that there is always some point where more spendings won't give you any advantages any more.