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11

I'm a novice at programming although I've been teaching myself Python for about a year and I studied C# some time ago.

This month I started C++ programming courses at my university and I just have to ask; "why is the C++ code so complicated?"

Writing "Hello world." in Python is as simple as "print 'Hello world.'" but in C++ it's:

# include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main ()
{
    cout << "Hello world.";
    return 0;
}

I know there is probably a good reason for all of this but, why...

  • ... do you have to include the <iostream> everytime? Do you ever not need it?
  • ... same question for the standard library, when do you not need std::*?
  • ... is the "main" part a function? Do you ever call the main function? Why is it an integer? Why does C++ need to have a main function but Python doesn't?
  • ... do you need "std::cout << "? Isn't that needlessly long and complicated compared to Python?
  • ... do you need to return 0 even when you are never going to use it?

This is probably because I'm learning such basic C++ but every program I've made so far looks like this, so I have to retype the same code over and over again. Isn't that redundant? Couldn't the compiler just input this code itself, since it's always the same (i.e. afaik you always include <iostream>, std, int main, return 0)

A: 

Python is high-level language. C++ is middle-level language.

Aziz
No, you don't always need iostream. Lots of graphical/windowed apps don't bother with console output.
andy
+3  A: 

This reminds me of The Evolution of a Programmer. Some of the languages and technologies demonstrated are a bit dated now, but you should get the general idea. :)

Greg Hewgill
+6  A: 

You include <iostream> when you want to output things to the console. Since printing "Hello world" involves console output, you need iostream.

The main function is called by the operating system, basically. It gets called with the command-line arguments passed to the program. It returns an integer because the program must return an error code to the operating system (this is the standard way for determining if the last command was successful).

You can always use printf("hello world"); instead of std::cout << "hello world"; if you want to go C style. It's a bit quicker to write and lets you do formatted output.

You return 0 from main to indicate that the program executed successfully.

The compiler does not automatically include all the standard libraries and use namespace std because sometimes name collisions can result between your code and library code that you may not actually need at all. You don't always need all the libraries. Likewise, sometimes you are using a different main routine (Windows development comes to mind with its own, different WinMain starting function). The compiler also does not automatically return 0 because sometimes the program needs to indicate that it completed unsuccessfully.

jgottula
For what it's worth, in plain C a program can call the `main()` function as well as the OS, though this is forbidden in C++. The only real purpose for this would be to generate everyone's favorite error.
Chris Lutz
And really, a stub put in by the compiler calls the `main()` function, but essentially, it's the OS that starts execution, and it has to start somewhere, some way.
jgottula
This is a great answer, I just knew I wouldn't be able to keep up with C++ if I subconsciously think that what I'm doing is pointless.Judging by the responses it does seem like _not_ using std and iostream is the EXCEPTION. Why not make a way to indicate that the user is not using std or iostream, opposed to indicating that the user is using them?And I know that Python is a high-level language like Aziz pointed out (although I'm not too sure on the difference), but how can Python manage to have such a simple and beautiful syntax which does the same thing as that complicated C++ one?
Baldur
I guess it's because C++ inherits greatly from C, an older, lower-level language. Programmers expect a great deal of control from C/C++, and part of that includes explicitly telling the compiler which headers to include and which namespaces to use. Python and scripting languages are a little more implicit and sacrifice some control for ease of development and maintenance.
jgottula
+5  A: 

There are good reasons for all these things. C++ is a very broad language it is used for everything from small embedded systems to giant applications built by 100s of programmers. The use case of a guy building a small program to run on a desktop is by no means the only one. So sometimes you are building library components. In that case no main(). Sometimes you are working on a tiny system with no standard library. In that case no std. Sometimes you want to build a Unix tool that works with other Unix text tools and signals its completion status with an int returned from main().

In other words the things you complain about are boilerplate to you. But they are vital details that vary to other users of the language.

Bill Forster
+6  A: 

In response to your questions at the end of the post, it can be summed up with the philosophy of C++:

You don't pay for what you don't use.

You don't always need to use stdin or stdout (Windows/GUI apps?), nor will you always be using the STL, nor will everything you write necessarily use the standard main (winAPI) etc. As a previous poster said, C++ is lower level than Python. You will be exposed to more of the details, which offers you more control over what you're doing.

Faxwell Mingleton
+2  A: 

As people have said, the simple answer is that they're different languages, with different goals. To answer your specific questions...

... do you have to include the <iostream> everytime? Do you ever not need it?

<iostream> is one of the header files for iostreams, the part of the C++ standard library responsible for input/output; in this instance, you need it to gain access to std::cout. If you're not doing I/O operations in a source file, you don't need to include it -- for example, most files containing class definitions probably won't need <iostream>.

... same question for the standard library, when do you not need std::*?

std is the name of namespace containing classes in the standard library; it's there to avoid name collisions. Python has packages and modules to do this.

You can use the using statement to bring items from another namespace into your current scope, see this FAQ entry for an example (and an explanation of why it's bad to blindly bring all of std into scope!).

... why is the "main" part a function? Do you ever call the main function? Why is it an integer? Why does C++ need to have a main function but Python doesn't?

Executable statements in C++ have to be contained within a function, and the main function is defined as where execution begins. In Python, executable statements can be placed at the top-level of a file, and execution is defined to .

You can call main() if you wish -- it's just a function, after all -- but there's not often a reason to do this. Behind the scenes, most implementations of C++ call main() for you once some startup housekeeping has been done by the runtime library.

The return value of main() is returned back to the operating system. This stems from C and UNIX, in which application programs are required to provide a 1-byte exit status code, and returning that value from main() is a clear way of expressing this.

... why do you need "std::cout << "? Isn't that needlessly long and complicated compared to Python?

This is just a design difference. iostreams is a fairly complex beast with lots of features, and one of the side-effects of this is that the syntax is a bit ugly for simple tasks at times.

... why do you need to return 0 even when you are never going to use it?

You do use it; this is the value returned to the operating system as the exit status of the program.

Stephen Veiss
+34  A: 

C++ is a more low-level language that executes without the context of an interpreter. As such, it has many different design choices than does Python, because C++ has no environment which it can rely on to manage information like types and memory. C++ can be used to write an operating system kernel where there is no code running on the machine except for the program itself, which means that the language (some library facilities are not available for so-called freestanding implementations) must be self-contained. This is why C++ has no equivalent to Python's eval, nor a means of determining members, etc. of a class, nor other features that require an execution environment (or a massive overhead in the program itself instead of such an environment)

For your individual questions:

  • do you have to include the everytime? Do you ever not need it?

#include <iostream> is the directive that imports the <iostream> header into your program. <iostream> contains the standard input/output objects - in particular, cout. If you aren't using standard I/O objects (for instance, you use only file I/O, or your program uses a GUI library, or are writing an operating system kernel), you do not need <iostream>

  • same question for the standard library, when do you not need std::*?

std is the namespace containing all of the standard library. using namespace std; is sort of like from std import *, whereas a #include directive is (in this regard) more like a barebones import std statement. (in actual fact, the mechanism is rather different, because C++ does not use using namespace std; to automatically lookup objects in std; the using-directive only imports the names into the global namespace.)

I'll note here that using-directives (using namespace) are frequently frowned upon in C++ code, as they import a lot of names and can cause name clashes. using-declarations (using std::cout;) are preferred when possible, as is limiting the scope of a using-directive (for instance, to one function or to one source file). Don't ever put using namespace in a header without good reason.

  • is the "main" part a function? Do you ever call the main function? Why is it an integer? Why does C++ need to have a main function but Python doesn't?

main is the entry point to the program - where execution starts. In Python, the __main__ module serves the same purpose. C++ does not execute code outside a defined function like Python does, so its entry point is a function rather than a module.

  • do you need "std::cout << "? Isn't that needlessly long and complicated compared to Python?

std::cout is only needed if you don't import the cout name into the global namespace, either by a using-directive (using namespace std;) or by a using-declaration (using std::cout). In this regard, it is once again much like the distinction between Python's import std and from std import * or from std import cout.

The << is an overloaded operator for standard stream objects. cout << value calls cout's function to output value. Python needs no such extra code because print is built into the language; this does not make sense for C++, where there may not even be an operating system, much less an I/O library.

  • do you need to return 0 even when you are never going to use it?

No. main (and no other function) has an implicit return 0; at the end. The return value of main (or, if the exit function is called, the value passed to it) is passed back to the operating system as the exit code. 0 indicates the program successfully executed - that it encountered no errors, etc. If an error is encountered, a non-zero value should be returned (or passed to exit).

coppro
Wow! Thank you very much for that great and detailed response!
Baldur
No problem :) I'm actually just learning Python myself, so it was a good test of my knowledge to be able to explain the other way back.
coppro
Maybe I'm doing this the wrong way. Do you think it would be a good idea to continue with C++ for a couple of months until I get a pretty solid foundation and then try studying low-level languages like assembly? Should high-level languages like Python be the last languages you learn?
Baldur
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with starting from the top down. Assembly is frustrating to learn for a new programmer because it takes a lot of effort to do the simplest things (which is part of why it is such an effective way to learn coding). You don't even really need to understand assembly as much as you do computer architecture. I recommend a book like /Programming Language Pragmatics/, which explains how computers work, and so lets you understand all languages better. But as long as you keep an open mind (like asking this question rather than ranting) you'll do fine
coppro
+4  A: 

... do you have to include the everytime? Do you ever not need it?

You don't need it if you're not going to use iostreams in that module. In larger programs, few modules do any actual IO directly, and so few actually need to use iostreams.

Turning the question around: in python you need to import sys and/or os in most non-trivial programs. Why?

... same question for the standard library, when do you not need std::*?

You can have the using line or you can use the std:: prefix. This is very similar to the choice python gives you of either saying "from sys import *" or "import sys" and then having to prefix things with "sys.". In pythn you have to say "sys.stdout". Is "std::cout" really any worse?

... is the "main" part a function? Do you ever call the main function? Why is it an integer? Why does C++ need to have a main function but Python doesn't?

Yes, main is a function. Typically you wouldn't call main yourself. The name "main" is reserved for the entry-point of your program. It returns an integer because the value returned is used as the status code of your program. In Python you can use sys.exit if you want to return a non-zero status code.

Python doesn't have the same convention because with Python you can have code in a module not in a function. This code is executed when you load the module. Interestingly, many people feel it is bad style to have code at the top-level of a module and will instead create a main function by doing something like this:

def main(argv):
  # program goes here

  return 0

if __name__ == '__main__':
  sys.exit(main(sys.argv))

Also, in Python you tell the interpreter with module is the "main" module when you run it. eg: "python foo.py". In C, the "main" module is (effectively) the one with a function called main. (If there are multiple modules with a main function, it's a linker error.)

... do you need "std::cout << "? Isn't that needlessly long and complicated compared to Python?

The equivalent in Python is actually "sys.stdout.write(...)". Python's print statement is a special-case short-hand.

That said, many people do feel the iostreams convention of using bit-shifting operators for IO was a bad idea. Ironically, Python seems to have been "inspired" by this syntax. If you want to use print to write to somewhere other than stdout you can say:

print >>file, "Hello"

... do you need to return 0 even when you are never going to use it?

You aren't going to use it, but your program will. As mentioned earlier, the value you return is the status code of your program.

Aside: I actually do feel that C++ is overcomplicated, but not because of any of the points you mention. All of the differences you mention go away (in the sense that you need just as much complexity in Python) once you start writing non-trivial programs that have multiple modules and do more than just writing to stdout.

Laurence Gonsalves
+3  A: 

Baldur:

You don't always need <iostream>. The only things that you will always need are:

  1. A main function (or a WinMain, if you're writing Win32 apps).
  2. Variables, functions, operators, language constructs (if, while, etc.).
  3. The ability to include functionality from libraries into your program.

Everything else is application-specific.

As other posters say, the return value of the main function is an error code1. If main returns 0, be happy: everything worked OK!

1This is useful when you write programs that "communicate" with other programs. The most simple way that a program can "tell" another whether it executed properly is using an error code.

Eduardo León
A: 

...so I have to retype the same code over and over again. Isn't that redundant? Couldn't the compiler just input this code itself, since it's always the same...

You should copy this project stub into a new file, call it 'NewProjectTemplate.cpp' and save yourself some typing!

I think I have always included std and iostream in every c++ program I've ever written, just as a matter of course. You can always take it out. But it's nice to have a pre-formed template when you want to start a new solution.

Kirk Broadhurst
+5  A: 

One of the reasons C++ is rather complicated is because it was designed to address problems that crop up in large programs. At the time C++ was created as AT&T, their biggest C program was about 10 million lines of code. At that scale, C doesn't function very well. C++ addresses many of the problems you get with that kind of program.

With that said, it's also possible to answer the original questions:

  • You would include <iostream> where it's needed. If you've got 10.000 C++ files, it's quite common that less than 1000, sometimes less than 100 will produce user-visible output.
  • A statement like print "Hello, world" assumes that there is a default output, but makes it hard to generalize. The cout << "Hello, world" form makes it explicit where the output goes, but the same form also allows cerr << "Goodbye, world" and MyTmpFile << "Starting phase #" << i
  • The standard library is in the std:: namespace. My 10.000 files will be in an additional 25 namespaces.
  • main is an oddity in many ways, being the startup function.
MSalters