views:

54

answers:

3

Hi all,

I have a shopping site that works a little bit differently than the rest: the only way to get to the products that you want is by search, my client asked not to display links to categories of products.

I'm worried about search engine optimization because crawlers won't be able to get to the products or the views. Oh, didn't i mention the views? Perhaps there's a better word for this, but my client requests that the views must get high ranking on Google, for instance if you search some-product-from-my-site location-of-the-product-from-my-site you should get mysite.com/search/location-of-the-product-from-my-site/some-product-from-my-site in the top results. That url is the view i'm talking about.

This is one of the main features of the project. Is there anything that i can do to achieve this?

+1  A: 

Without somehow displaying a list of products its no possible. Even if you populate a Sitemap google wont rank you until there are real links to your products. Why don't you put a list of products on you website and make it somehow small or move it out of sight, so google follows the links but your customers don't get distracted.

theomega
+2  A: 

I have a little experience from an SEO Company, there are a few tricks you can do to include links without making them displayable to the user, close to what theomega mentions but doing so without permanently hiding it from the user:

Why don't you put a list of products on you website and make it somehow small or move it out of sight, so google follows the links but your customers don't get distracted.

The main part of the keyword section for the search will be content. 7-10% of your content should be strong relational content to your target keywords. So for t-shirts you could add in words like shirt, tee-shirt, clothes, tops, etc. and for marketing purposes with the t-shirt analogy you would use keywords like cheap, affordable, low price, etc. 7-10% is the magic range, anything too high above 10% may be considered spam content by a search engine, too little and it feels the content is not relevant to the keywords you're targeting.

Also, use your <h1> - <h6> tags wisely on your product names. Emphasising a title in the right way (whether it has a link <a> ref or not) will always yield good results, especially with Google and Yahoo. Use one <h1> tag to do a main title and try to include a sub title with <h2> or <h3> to emphasise some more sub-keywords.

The site map is still a good idea but like theomega said, there is not much it can do if there aren't back track links on the site (like navigation menus) that relate to the links provided in the site map.

To do the hidden but crawler readable link revealable, you can use a negative floating <div> with a high z-index: and then use JavaScript or CSS to reveal those links to the user on a Click or Mouse event.

stack-overflow-black-tshirt.html:

<html>
 <head>
  <title>My Cheap Stack Overflow T-Shirt</title>
  <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"  ref="/style.css"> 
  <meta name="keywords" content="t-shirts, tee, shirts, stack, overflow, black" />
 </head>
 <body>
  <h1>Affordable Tee Shirts for Stack Overflow Users</h1>
  <h2>Stack Overflow Logo on Black T-shirt</h2>
  <div id="link-floater">
   <a href="/cheap-affordable-stack-overflow-tshirts/stack-overflow-black-tshirt.html">Stack Overflow Black Tee Shirt</a>
  </div>
  <!-- Content starts here -->
  <div id="content">
   Buy this t-shirt now!
  </div>
 </body>
<html>

style.css:

/*This shows a 10px section of the links div (100px width - 90px left:offset)*/
#link-floater
{
 display: block;
 height: 100px;
 left: -90px;
 position: absolute;
 top: 0;
 width: 100px;
 z-index: 2;
}

/*Using a hover you can reveal the links*/

#link-floater:hover
{
 left: 0;
}

#content
{
 display: block;
 z-index: 1;
}

This small code snippet shows the idea of putting in the keywords in your content, in <meta> tags to help categorisation by the search engine and the css used to make a <div> float out of visibility of the user but able to be scanned by a crawler.

The reason we explicitly set each z-index is to ensure that the negative positioning of the floating <div> does not affect the layout of the other elements.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: As a revision to my description, when hiding links, you must allow an option to reveal them to the user. Creating completely hidden links has a bad effect on your page ranking and may end in removal from indexes. Hiding links as an intention to skew what a search engine can crawl in comparison to what a viewer can see will have a bad effect unless this is a description of existing links (for example those on a site-map) to aid in accessibility for screen readers and for brail generators.

Blue
If you're hiding a bunch of links from Google this is a sure-fire way towards getting yourself banned from their indexes.
EnderMB
Not necessarily true, it could be the user has a choice to show the links using JavaScript and this is perfectly viable according to Google's standards.Hiding links is fine as long as they can be revealed or used to act like anchors to interconnect the page to the site map or for accessibility options for blind users.You're not hiding them from Google, you are just taking them out of the users view port so that a crawler can still log relevant links.If you were to use a `display: none;` rule on the css for the divider containing the links then yes Google would recognise this.
Blue
this is the best advice i've got so far, but there's more content in the links that i want to hide than in the visible page; maybe i could spread the links to my so-called views across the entire site or find a way to display them in something like a 'relevant-searches' box like on SO. I'm still waiting for other suggestions though
altvali
What more content is there to add? You can add a significant amount into a links inner text but you don't want to create a spam like amount. Can you provide an example of a page and the links that correspond to them?
Blue
Can you provide links to prove this is true? I am under the impression that Google will detect anything you hide from users and it is to their discretion if they deem it a breach of their TOS. If you're hiding links from users for only Google to crawl then I'd be surprised if Google didn't take action. Also, Google runs as a contextual engine as well, so keyword stuffing is definitely a bad idea nowadays.
EnderMB
It's not keyword stuffing, my comment was to keep it under 10% but higher than 7%, a contextual engine still requires relevant content. It would be bad if a t-shirt page had one or two words involving synonyms of t-shirts and the rest was just colours. It would leave the impression of a colour table page instead of a t-shirt sale.Although Google detects hidden links on a page as bad, if you leave them in a navigation box that can be revealed then Google's rank system realises this without bad effect.This article shows link style switching and penalties: http://3n9.org/articles/css-hiding.html
Blue
This article does nothing to prove that such a tactic would not be frowned upon. Three links from SitePoint forums would suggest that it could be viewed as cloaking, suggesting that people use the Gilder/Levin instead. http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498073 http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361767 http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571144. Do you have any authoritative links to suggest that it will not be frowned upon, such as Matt Cutts or something from Google?
EnderMB
With thanks to your pointing out that completely hiding the content is detrimental to the user (as I have now edited), Google defines a hidden link like this:**Quality guidelines - basic principles**<blockquote>Make pages primarily for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users or present different content to search engines than you display to users, which is commonly referred to as "cloaking.".</blockquote>So as such if you are able to make the links reveal on user interaction it is a legitimate method. Put the JavaScript into a `<noscript>` tag to show this to Google.
Blue
http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769For reference.
Blue
That's a far better resource to quote, although I would still be wary of cloaking unless it were absolutely necessary (i.e. a web application that handles content). Either way, great link!
EnderMB
Cloaking is not an issue if you add the exact JavaScript in use into a `<noscript>` tag to show that the content can be revealed. I have used this on my own sites before with no ill effect. Thank you for the positive feedback after the rally of comments :P
Blue
+1  A: 

I have some relevant and successful experience in SEO/SEM, so I'll weigh in with my opinions.

To put it simply, if there is no point of access to these pages then search engines won't crawl them very often, and they certainly won't rank very high.

As I've already mentioned in comments hiding content from users will more than likely get your client banned. Nowdays it can be safely assumed that Google is aware of the context where content is hidden through JavaScript, so obviously certain parts are crawled and some aren't depending on their use. If you stuff a few links in a div and hide it from users then Google will realise this and more than likely won't follow the links, deeming them as irrelevant. In short, if you hide stuff from Google it'll either see it as irrelevant or unlawful; take your pick.

If I were you I'd flat-out tell the client that what they want is impossible. Google is a smart search engine and if he doesn't want users to find these products through links then he cannot realistically expect Google to find them. The best possible way of achieving what he wants is to either link through to these through a sitemap or directory of products at the bottom of the page or to set up an update page, where whenever a new product is added a page and a link is produced for both search engines and users to follow.

To make it clearer, just tell your boss to imagine that Google is just another user, one that likes to click through links. If that user is greeted by a form he/she'll miss most of the website and won't tell his friends about it.

EDIT: As I've stated before, there are a lot of people that would agree with me that this practice would be viewed as cloaking and would get you punished by Google. The fact that various members of Google cannot decide on whether it is a legit practice most likely means that you run an incredible risk attempting to do this. To quote one of these sources:

Matt Cutts has discussed text-indent and other CSS methods that achieve a similar end result — so have Google’s WebMaster (WM) team members… and there has been no final, unquestionably clear answer or consensus as to whether such actions could result in a penalty or ban.

It's up to you whether you trust these sources. To be honest, I trust the opinions of Google employees and members of established Web Development communities that have shown competence in SEO.

http://www.doublemule.com/how-to-thesis-theme-clickable-banner-image-tutorial-tool/

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498073

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361767

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571144

EnderMB